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If you the clout to change/create a local TV Guide edition pre-2005

The discussion about the Jan. 23, 1972 Evansville-Paducah TVG listing got me wondering about something on my mind for a while. If TV Guide still published local editions, or if you had the clout before fall 2005 to change/realign existing local edition territories/lineups or create new TVG editions, which ones would you have liked to see changed or created? My ideas for Illinois: --Illinois-Wisconsin edition (Rockford/Madison, also carried Milwaukee and Chicago listings): I would have brought that edition's territory into north central Illinois (perhaps Peoria northward) and added stations from the Quad Cities and Peoria/Bloomington--and maybe the Champaign/Urbana side (maybe just WCIA-3 and WILL-12 only due to historic cable coverage) of the Champaign/Springfield market. It would have probably split into separate "Northern Illinois" and "Southern Wisconsin" editions. The Western and Eastern Illinois editions would have, for the most part, combined into a "Central Illinois" edition with the Champaign/Springfield, Peoria and Quincy/Hannibal (and KTVO-3 Kirksville/Ottumwa) channels in their primary area, plus also carrying stations from Terre Haute, St. Louis and the Quad Cities. Then at least the major St. Louis, Memphis and Louisville stations, and all of the Terre Haute channels, could have been added to the Evansville-Paducah edition--with the edition's territory at the footstep of the St. Louis metro area. The St. Louis edition could have been limited to a cable-only edition--with the rural areas of the market either getting Central Illinois, Evansville-Paducah, or a Missouri edition that could have been realigned itself to also add St. Louis and Quincy/Hannibal/Kirksville stations. How would have you changed the old TV Guide channel lineups in their good old "local" days if you had the clout?

The old Hartford/New Haven Edition covered Hartford, New Haven, New Britain (WVIT), Waterbury (WTXX, now WCCT), New London (WTWS, now WHPX), Springfield, MA and the VHF stations from New York City/Secaucus, NJ. WSBK-TV of Boston was listed as "38B" under cable. I think CPTV (Connecticut Public Television) was listed with 24/53/65 bullets (24 of Hartford, 53 of Norwich and 65 of New Haven). I don't think WEDW-TV channel 49 of Bridgeport was listed. WUVN-TV (UNI) channel 18 of Hartford was missing for a long time, with the previous WHCT-TV channel 18 being forced off the air in 1991.

I sometimes wonder how subchannels would've been listed in a 2013 edition. I think a rectangular "61-2" bullet for Antenna TV on WTIC-TV 61-2 would look strange!

I would have created the Western New England edition by merging the Hartford / New Haven edition with the Springfield / Chicopee / Holyoke edition, especially as SCH had the greatest proportion of white bullets (for out of town channels) to black bullets (for local channels, in which only three were represented).

I would have created a Southwest Washington edition. All stores S of Olympia, WA and North of Vancouver, WA, and anywhere in the SW WA Cascades, or SW WA coast (Long Beach, Raymond, etc) would have gotten a TVG that included 4/5/7/9/11/13/16/22/28/33 Seattle, and 2/6/8/10/12/22/32/49 Portland, OR, + CBUT 2 Vancouver. Don't some cable providers out there offer both Seattle networks and Portland networks? -crainbebo

The two editions I followed the most (from age 6, believe it or not), were the Southeast PA edition and the Central PA edition. The Southeast PA edition had broadcast stations for the Harrisburg area (8-NBC, 15-UPN**, 21-CBS, 27-ABC, 33-PBS, 43-FOX), Philly (3-CBS, 6-ABC, 10-NBC, 12-PBS, 17-WB**, 29-FOX, 57-UPN**), Baltimore (2-ABC, 11-NBC, 13-CBS, 45-FOX), but only for DC, 5-FOX. (** as UPN and WB were still around in 2005...no CW or MY until 2006) There are cable systems (close to the PA/MD line) around Chambersburg who carry some more DC stations (such as 4-NBC, 7-ABC, and 9-CBS). Not sure if Chambersburg was a "Two TV Guide Town" (that always interested me), and numerous ones closer to Maryland who carried MPT. None of those stations were carried in the SE PA edition. Honorary mention would go to WGCB from Red Lion. As far as for the Central PA edition, they carried the aforementioned Harrisburg and Philly channels, along with New York (2-CBS, 4-NBC, 5-FOX, 7-ABC, 9-UPN, 11WB), and Scranton (16-ABC, 22-CBS, 28-NBC, 38-WB, 44-PBS, 56-FOX, 64-PAX), Allentown (39-PBS, 69-Ind.). At one point they carried 13-PBS from the NYC area but dropped it sometime in 1981 or 1982. There are also some systems who carry Binghamton - those stations should have been included...

I would have created a Southwest Washington edition. All stores S of Olympia, WA and North of Vancouver, WA, and anywhere in the SW

WA Cascades, or SW WA coast (Long Beach, Raymond, etc) would have gotten a TVG that included 4/5/7/9/11/13/16/22/28/33 Seattle, and 2/6/8/10/12/22/32/49 Portland, OR, + CBUT 2 Vancouver. Don't some cable providers out there offer both Seattle networks and Portland networks? The Eastern Washington State edition, in the early-1980s, also included the major channels from Portland and Seattle, as well as KVOS Bellingham and CHEK-TV Victoria. Why not a true statewide edition sold outside the Seattle, Spokane and Vancouver WA areas? Just add the missing channels not already included in the Eastern WA edition.

I have an Eastern WA from Aug 1968, but it only lists stations east of the Cascades, all WA except for KLEW/3, KUID/12 and KTVR/13 La Grande, OR (now a PBS station). The weird thing is that KTVR aired NBC way earlier than anyone else. Johnny Carson aired at 9:30PM there. Today aired at 6AM, and Jeopardy (Art Fleming) aired at 9AM, compared to 11AM on KHQ/KNDO. This was because KTVR repeated KTVB Boise, which was on Mountain Time, while La Grande was in Pacific.

Oh, man, I was thinking about starting a thread about this very thing. Thanks, Tim, for taking the first step. Since I am one of the Southern boys who haunt this great forum, I've got me a few "idears" about the subject. "Yawl" listen up, now. --I always thought the Nashville edition, with only that market's stations and those in Bowling Green and southern Kentucky, was a waste. Add white bullets for stations in Chattanooga and Huntsville (yes, with its UHFs) at least, and you touch all parts of Middle Tennessee. --While I remember that Nashville stations were carried on cable in northern Alabama, their listings in that area's edition came at the expense of folks in the central counties of the state who could get Montgomery's WSFA, for example. Trade off the Nashville channels for, say, WSFA, Selma/Montgomery's WSLA/WAKA, maybe Columbus' WRBL and WTVM (for eastern Alabama), and, while at it, why not the Atlanta Vs? At least things would have been a shade more interesting. I felt badly over the years for the folks in the middle of the state who had to put up with channels in either the Northern (Nashville) or Southern (Dothan, Panama City) Alabama editions that they couldn't possibly get. I suspect, as a result, circulation and retail sales in those counties was much lower than elsewhere, with folks probably depending more on listings in their local paper instead, where both the Birmingham and Montgomery stations were carried. I'm out of time right now, but I'll think of some more later on.

My Version of the Detroit Edition would have included the Flint area (5, 12, 25, 28), Additional stations from SW Ontario (22, 29, 32, 42, 54), and Lansing (6, 10, 23)

Didn't Detroit mostly omit most of the north and west so they could include the much closer Toledo, OH market (11, 13, 24 and 36)? Carrying the listings of CBET-TV (CBC) channel 9 of Windsor, ON was a no-brainer.

If I had to revise the Central Virginia Edition (before it merged with Eastern Virginia Edition) today I would include WVPT-51 PBS (Harrisonburg) as it is on cable in Lynchburg. It was in the edition until removed in the late 80's. Add the Richmond Channels as they are on cable in Buckingham County. Also would add UNC-TV as all the border counties carry it on cable.

Around 2003 an edition for Charter cable subscribers in Alabama was introduced. It included the listings for Birmingham (6, 13, 21, 33, 40, 42 & 68), Montgomery (8, 12, 20, 32 & 67) and Huntsville (15, 19, 31, 48 & 54) stations, but also included the channel grids for virtually every area in Alabama and eastern Mississippi that Charter had the local cable franchise. However, there were no program listings for stations in Columbus, GA (3, 9, 38, 54, 66), Columbus/Tupelo/West Point, MS (4, 9, 27, 45), Dothan (4, 18, 34), Jackson, TN (7), or Chattanooga (3, 9, 12) that were available to at least some of the Charter subscribers in the areas that this edition was distributed to. Had all of those channels been added to the listings, it would have been as unwieldy as the South Georgia edition that we all like to make fun of. There would have been two 3's (Columbus, GA and Chattanooga), two 4's (Columbus, MS and Dothan), two 9's (Tupelo and Columbus, GA), two 12's (Montgomery and Chattanooga), and even two 54's (Huntsville and Columbus, GA). This is the approximate numerical lineup of each network. Good luck trying to figure out how to make the shading of the bullets among the markets workable: CBS: 3 (CGA)-4 (CMS)-4 (D)-8-12 (CTN)-19-42 NBC: 3 (CTN)-9 (Tup)-12 (Mont)-13-38-48 Fox: 6-20-27-34-54 (Hsv)-54 (CGA) ABC: 7-9 (CTN)-18-31-32-33-40-45 UPN: 15-66-67-68 WB: 21 Readers would have been spared these duplicates because of generic bullets for statewide PBS networks: 7 (PBS, Mount Cheaha, AL), and a 3rd Channel 12 (Booneville, MS).

And since local TBN stations were generally not listed by channel number, a second channel 45 (Montgomery) would not have been included.

Here's some other ideas for back in the day (we're talking about the Triangle/Annenberg era, I presume): --St. Louis: sure those VHFs were plenty strong to cover all of eastern Missouri and about half of southern Illinois, but why only them? How about throwing in KOMU ( in Columbia and KRCG (13) in Jefferson City, for starters? Some white-bullet possibilities would have been KHQA (7) in Hannibal, Missouri; WGEM (10) in Quincy, Illinois; WSIL (3) in Harrisburg, Illinois; KFVS (12) in Cape Girardeau, Missouri. --Memphis: except for KAIT ( in Jonesboro and Arkansas ETV, the eastern part of Arkansas is ignored. White bullets for the Little Rock Vs (KARK-4, KATV-7, KTHV11) wouldn't have been much of a problem. For the northern counties of West Tennessee, throw in KFVS and WPSD (6) in Paducah, Kentucky. Since I have read stories about how Nashville stations appeared on cable systems in the small towns in West Tennessee, I suspect white bullets for the Nashville Vs (except for public station WDCN) could have easily gone in there too. --New Orleans: I never saw the need for a separate edition for that area alone, as the Big Easy's Vs were carried in both the Louisiana and Gulf Coast editions (contrary to the list on Wikipedia, I remember those). --the old Georgia/North Georgia editions: I always thought the Columbus Vs (WRBL-3 and WTVM-9) would have been all right--just make them both black bullets so as to contrast with Chattanooga's (WRCB-3 and WTVC-9) white ones, or vice versa. --Washington-Baltimore: I don't suppose it would have been unwieldy to include the V stations from Philadelphia and Richmond, would it? Add the several stand-alone small stations in northern Virginia too. After all, it included Lancaster, Pennsylvania's WGAL ( for many years. Proof that TVG wasn't always strange about arbitrary boundaries in my view was the inclusion of Charlotte, North Carolina in both the Carolina-Tennessee and North Carolina editions. I also thought it curious that the nation's largest market, New York City, for years included Connecticut stations (and later, New Jersey's state PBS network) in the Metro edition. I know, I know about the old 15% rule. But grade B or even rimshot coverage should have been taken into account in some of the instances back then.

Another change would have been to include the Indianapolis, Terre Haute and Dayton stations in the edition that served Louisville and Lexington, thus combining four editions

into one by eliminating separate editions for northern and eastern Kentucky, southern Indiana and SW Ohio. The only drawback to this idea would have been that due to significant Grade-B coverage in SW Ohio, you would also have to included at least the VHF stations from Columbus, as well. And back to the Northern Alabama edition: a case could have been made for including at least WTOK-11 from Meridian, if not all three Meridian stations, since their OTA signal covered a part of the market served by that edition. Another "weirdity": the Southern Mississippi edition included WTVA-9 from Tupelo and WLOV-27 from West Point, but it didn't include WCBI-4 from Columbus. Last time I checked, Columbus is about 55 miles S of Tupelo, and about 20 miles S of West Point.

--St. Louis: sure those VHFs were plenty strong to cover all of eastern Missouri and about half of southern Illinois, but why only them? How about throwing in KOMU ( in Columbia and KRCG (13) in Jefferson City, for starters? Some white-bullet possibilities would have been KHQA (7) in Hannibal, Missouri; WGEM (10) in Quincy, Illinois; WSIL (3) in Harrisburg, Illinois; KFVS (12) in Cape Girardeau, Missouri. You could have also thrown in stations from Terre Haute, Champaign/Decatur/Springfield, Evansville, Paducah, and perhaps Springfield, MO as well. However, in that case this hypothetical St. Louis edition could have been split into separate "Southern Illinois" and "Eastern Missouri" editions, both of which would have carried St. Louis, Quincy/Hannibal (plus Kirksville) and Cape Girardeau/Paducah/Harrisburg. Maybe Peoria/Bloomington listings could have also been included in a "Southern Illinois" edition if that hypothetical edition would have been the one sold here in the Springfield area (for the benefit of viewers in Menard, Cass and Logan counties that have had historical cable and/or Grade B coverage of Peoria stations in addition to those from Springfield--plus with a good antenna channels 25 and 31 from Peoria have been the best bets of receiving Peoria channels in the capitol city proper). Summary of my other alternative scenarios for fictitious TV Guide local editions: "Southern Illinois": St. Louis, Springfield/Decatur/Champaign, Paducah/Cape Girardeau/Carbondale/Harrisburg, Quincy/Hannibal/Keokuk/Macomb, Kirksville/Ottumwa, Terre Haute, Peoria/Bloomington, Evansville. "Eastern Missouri": St. Louis, Quincy, Kirksville, Paducah/CG, Columbia/Jeff City, Springfield (MO). "Western Missouri": Columbia, KC, Kirksville, Springfield, Joplin, Fayetteville, St. Joseph, Quincy/Hannibal (possibly).

"Northern Illinois" Chicago, Rockford, Quad Cities, Peoria/Bloomington, Quincy/Hannibal, Kirksville/Ottumwa, Champaign/Decatur/Springfield, plus Dubuque, IA and KIIN-12 Iowa City (PBS)--and MAYBE the rest of Cedar Rapids/Waterloo (if this edition was extended into the Iowa side of the Quad Cities market as an "Illowa" or N IL/Eastern Iowa edition). The St. Louis and Chicago editions would have been cable-only.

Another change would have been to include the Indianapolis, Terre Haute and Dayton stations in the edition that served Louisville and Lexington, thus combining four editions into one by eliminating separate editions for northern and eastern Kentucky, southern Indiana and SW Ohio. Unfortunately, at the time TVG discontinued local editions, most Indiana was still on year-round eastern Standard Time (except areas closest to Cincinnati and Louisville, as well as the Central Time portion), meaning that in most of Southern Indiana, such an edition won't do no good without viewers knowing to subtract one hour from the listed time. As Homer Simpson would say: "DOH!" I had totally forgotten about that.

ONCE GREAT STATIONS THAT HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE

KTVF's fall from grace continues; in spring 2012, the station was sold to Chena Broadcasting. But the best upside from it? ALL of their programming (well, network and syndicated) would now be in HD! But the downside was that a couple months ago, KTVF moved out of the Van Horn Road studios (which they called home since leaving the Northward Building in 1990) and into their new home on Braddock Street and the same building where KFXF and KXD are housed. I think this leaves KATN as the only network station that's been at the same 2nd Ave. location since day one. That doesn't diminish the fact that their local news still sucks; thank god KTUU in Anchorage has finally decided to stream ALL of their newscasts live online, which are better produced and have a more professional, award-winning staff than KTVF.

I would add Chicago's independents, WGN, WFLD and WSNS.

Now WGN is just another CW affiliate, the only real program they have going for them is the morning show, which is driven by Larry Potash and Paul Konrad. WFLD was great and the battle between WFLD and WGN always meant good TV. Now it's a third rate Fox station. WSNS was the independent that would "try harder" so it had a lot of quirky shows. Now it's Telemundo. We still have WCIU which does well, but it too is loosing it's identity as it tries to be more corporate. I think that is the problem, local-ism has pretty much died out. Even Me-TV is not even half as good since it went national. America is too diverse to get exceptional programming all over. What plays in one city won't go over in another. And duopolies have ruined stations like WWOR, KCAL, KCOP and WPWR, which are dumping grounds. (note: I listed Fox duopolies but they aren't alone. Other owners are just as bad. I was gonna mention WPWR-TV. They started out as a time-shared station with WBBS on channel 60, & initially had some boring programming. Within a couple of years, the programming got better with some off-network syndicated programming. By the time they bought out WBBS's share of the license, WPWR-TV went full time in 1986, then a few months later, moved to channel 50 (only after swapping the unbuilt channel 56 license, & getting the channel 50 license changed to commercial, & the 56 license made non-commercial). They were a powerful independentin the late 80's into the mid 90's. They still did well after becoming a UPN affiliate.It only after Newsweb Corporation sold WPWR-TV to Fox, that WPWR-TV became a dumping ground for their programming. Even after creating MNT, it hadn't helped. I also agree about MeTV. It used to be great when it was just in Chicago (MeTV for comedy & MeToo for drama). Now, I feel MeToo is programmed better than MeTV is, since MeTV went national in December 2010. In the digital era, MeTV airs on WWMELD 23.1 & simulcasted on WCIU 26.3. MeToo is on WMEU-CD 48.1 & simulcasted on WCIU 26.4. I'm concerned down the line, that MeToo might go national as well down the line, & have comedy on MeTV & drama on MeToo. WGN-TV used to have some great programming. Now, it's talk shows during the day, & boring CW programming in primetime.

WSBK TV38 Boston. Once the home of the Red Sox, Bruins, The Movie Loft, Ask The Manager and The Three Stooges. Now the MyNet affiliate for Boston and owned by CBS.

We've seen both WKBW-TV in Buffalo and WTVH in Syracuse mentioned in this thread...and they have one thing in common. They changed hands from their original strong owners (Capital Cities/ABC for WKBW, Meredith for WTVH) to others, and both really hit the skids after Granite Broadcasting acquired both of them. It's true both stations lost their long time signature anchors to retirement between 1998 (Irv Weinstein in Buffalo) and 2000 (Ron Curtis in Syracuse) and didn't succeed in replacing them--each in fact had logical and well-liked successors in house at the time of the retirement who they let get away from them. (WKBW's anchor succession actually inspired a major Hollywood film, Jim Carrey's comedy Bruce Almighty, in which he played a thinly disguised former feature reporter who wanted (and didn't get) a shot to move into the anchor chair, although another former anchor who would have been the best candidate got away and went to the crosstown CBS affiliate which now leads the market. In both cases, Granite either didn't want to pay to keep them, couldn't, or couldn't make a timely decision. Or all three factors played a role. And that was typical--Granite has tried to do everything on the cheap and has been too slow to make any potentially risky choice, even though every successful choice in TV always carries some risk. WTVH has even farmed out its news operation to competing WSTM, and WKBW has simply downsized its news department significantly although it remains independent. Another ownership change is the only thing that will restore either of these stations to a really competitive position.

How about a list of once great stations that are still great? Four words apply here: race to the bottom. For a number of reasons the broadcast network and local station neighborhood has become decidedly low rent. A tour of the dial during a typical broadcast day reveals either moronic, trash programming, or infomercials and ads trying to sell garbage to people who enjoy moronic, trash programming. And please don't try to tell me this is no different than it was twenty or thirty years ago.

Gotta give one honorable mention to WPXI (nee WIIC) in Pittsburgh for going in the opposite direction. For many years the absolute laughing stock of the television industry for everything from "Groucho took a turn for the worse today, in fact he died" to being sued by Woody Allen for inserting their weather guy into one of his movies with Chromakey, to airing unedited footage of R. Budd Dwyer blowing his brains out. Somehow they have recovered to run a fairly respectable local news outfit.

For Indianapolis, I'll nominate WTTV/4 and WRTV/6. For WRTV/6, the great heritage of the WFBM stations carried over after the TV side Time-Life sale to McGraw Hill. As WRTV, the station's dominance grew. Overwhelmingly number one. Bob Gamble and Howard Caldwell led newsroom that ruled the news ratings. Despite some strong talent, a slow decline through the 90s and into the 00s. At times sinking to fourth place, losing to reruns at 6 and 11. But perhaps a better future is on the way. Saw their news show for the first time in a few years over the holidays. A stronger, tighter, better written and produced product than I've seen from 6 in quite awhile. Both Todd Connor and Drew Smith strike me a damned good anchors. Then there's Indiana's station WTTV/4. Strong independent under Tarzian ownership. Legendary local kids shows. IU and Purdue along with High School sports. A-list syndicated shows. The only trouble was the signal. Despite that, we all still watched. Nothing on the nets and you spent the rest of the evening with Merv Griffin or David Frost. The key was local and regional coverage. With the early growth of cable, Elmer Snow and Don Tillman busted backside to get that station cleared across Indiana and well into Illinois and Ohio. Then came the day when Tarzian decided to sell. You knew immediately that the product would suffer. That those local show that were such a key would be replaced with syndicated talk and cartoons. You knew they'd have to pay down that debt. And did it ever suffer. Add in the roll out of WPDS/WXIN/59 and the Hulman family purchase and launch of WNDY/23. The day they blew out the WTTV newsroom was one of my saddest in Indy broadcasting. And the numbers fell. The WTTV I see now is a shadow of what I grew up with. Despite Tribune ownership, it strikes me as the proverbial red headed step child to big brother co-owner WXIN/59. For just one more day watching Noah Miller and Chuck Marlowe hosting TV Bingo ("pick your cards up at all Walt's Market locations") after Lunchtime Theater cartoons.

WCVB-TV here in Boston has been going downhill ever since Chet and Nat split up!

Original Clearance of "Small Wonder"

In Alaska, KTVF in Fairbanks also had Small Wonder (pairing it with Out Of This World); Anchorage? I think either KTBY or KTVA; I'll look at those listings for further proof.

Portland,Oregon's KPDX had Small Wonder.

WHTM in Harrisburg aired Small Wonder, I want to say Saturdays @ 7:30pm.

Spokane's KAYU/KHQ and KXLY had Small Wonder And so did West Palm Beach's WFLX(let me correct myself, they had it but WPBF didn't. I don't know why I thought that, sorry about that) Eugene,Oregon's KLSR Fort Wayne's WANE Wichita's KSAS and Anchorage,Alaska's KTVA

2 more KTVQ Billings and WRAL Raleigh

WDKY Lexington,KY and WTIC Hartford also had Small Wonder

Super Mario Bros. Super Show TV Listings.

Here are a list of stations that have aired the Super Mario Bros. Super Show from September 1989 to August 1991 that I know of: WFXL Fox 31 - Albany, GA 3:30 PM WXXA Fox 23 - Albany, NY 2:30 PM KTBY Fox 4 - Anchorage, AK 8:00 AM WATL Fox 36 - Atlanta, GA 5:00 PM WNUV Ind 54 - Baltimore, MD 4:30 PM WTTO Fox 21 - Birmingham, AL 7:00 AM WFXT Fox 25 - Boston, MA 4:00 PM KOCR Fox 28 - Cedar Rapids, IA 3:30 PM WCCU Fox 27 - Champaign, IL 3:30 PM WVAH Fox 11 - Charleston, WV 7:00 AM WJZY Ind 46 - Charlotte, NC 4:30 PM

WFLD Fox 32 - Chicago, IL 2:30 PM WIII Ind 64 - Cincinnati, OH 4:00 PM WUAB Ind 43 - Cleveland, OH 4:00 PM WTTE Fox 28 - Columbus, OH 4:00 PM KDAF Fox 33 - Dallas, TX 3:00 PM WXON Ind 20 - Detroit, MI 4:30 PM KLSR Fox 25 - Eugene, OR 4:30 PM WFFT Fox 55 - Fort Wayne, IN 2:30 PM WOGX Fox 51 - Gainesville, FL 4:30 PM WGBA Ind 26 - Green Bay, WI 2:30 PM WHNS Fox 21 - Greenville, SC 6:00 AM WYED Ind 17 - Goldsboro, NC 3:00 PM WPMT Fox 43 - Harrisburg, PA 3:00 PM WTXX Ind 20 - Hartford, CT 4:00 PM KRIV Fox 26 - Houston, TX 4:00 PM WTTV Ind 4 - Indianapolis, IN 4:30 PM WNFT Ind 47 - Jacksonville, FL 4:00 PM WWCP Fox 8 - Johnstown, PA 3:30 PM KSHB Fox 41 - Kansas City, MO 3:30 PM WTTK Ind 29 - Kokomo, IN 4:30 PM KVVU Fox 5 - Las Vegas, NV 7:00 AM KTTV Fox 11 - Los Angeles, CA 4:00 PM WDRB Fox 41 - Louisville, KY 2:30 PM WGOT Ind 60 - Merrimack, NH 4:30 PM WDZL Ind 39 - Miami, FL 3:30 PM WVTV Ind 18 - Milwaukee, WI 4:30 PM WJTC Ind 44 - Mobile, AL 4:00 PM KCBA Fox 35 - Monterey, CA 7:00 AM WFXI Fox 8 - Morehead City, NC 6:00 AM WZTV Ind 17 - Nashville, TN 3:30 PM WNYW Fox 5 - New York, NY 4:00 PM KNOP NBC 2 - North Platte, NE 4:00 PM KPTM Fox 42 - Omaha, NE 6:00 AM WKCF Ind 68 - Orlando, FL 4:30 PM WGBS Ind 57 - Philadelphia, PA 4:00 PM KNXV Fox 15 - Phoenix, AZ 5:00 PM WPGH Fox 53 - Pittsburgh, PA 3:30 PM KPDX Fox 49 - Portland, OR 4:00 PM WNAC Fox 64 - Providence, RI 6:30 AM WKFT Ind 40 - Raleigh, NC 4:00 PM KTXL Fox 40 - Sacramento, CA 3:30 PM KXIV Ind 14 - Salt Lake City, UT 4:30 PM KDNL Fox 30 - Saint Louis, MO 3:30 PM KUSI Ind 51 - San Diego, CA ? KTVU Fox 2 - San Francisco, CA 3:30 PM KSTW Ind 11 - Seattle, WA 4:00 PM

KTTW Fox 17 - Sioux Falls, SD 4:00 PM KREM CBS 2 - Spokane, WA 6:00 AM WRSP Fox 55 - Springfield, IL 3:00 PM WTTG Fox 5 - Washington, DC 4:30 PM WTVX Ind 34 - West Palm Beach, FL 3:30 PM KJTL Fox 18 - Wichita Falls, TX 3:30 PM If you guys know of any other stations that aired The Super Mario Bros. Super Show, please reply and post them here. Also if anything on the list is not right please correct me. I would really appricate this.

Jackson (Miss.) Fox Affiliate WDBD 40 ran it at 4:30 p.m. I believe.

Why are you so obsessed with the Super Mario Bros. Super Show? Because i'm a huge fan of the Super Mario Franchise, and have been so since I got my first Nintendo, and I have always wanted to know what stations aired both the Super Mario Bros. Super Show and Captain N and the Video Gamemasters which had the Adventures of Super Mario Bros.3 and the Super Mario World cartoons included. I'm not obsessed with Mario in any form or way. If you have any other listings for the Super Mario Bros. Super show that is not listed above please post them here.

If you are looking for Captain N, it was on KTZZ in Seattle, c. 1991. I think it was 5 or 5:30pm. -crainbebo Anabate would you please look though all the September 1989 to August 1999 weekday schedules that you have and post what time and channels did the Super Mario Bros. Super Show air, i'd really appricate it.

Sailor Moon TV Stations

Here are a list of stations that have aired the Sailor Moon from September 1995 to August 1996 that I know of: KASA Fox 2 - Albuquerque, NM 5:30 AM WUPA UPN 69 - Atlanta, GA 8:30 AM KNVA WB 54 - Austin, TX 8:00 AM

WNUV UPN 54 - Baltimore, MD 6:00 AM WBTR UPN 19 - Baton Rouge, LA WABM UPN 68 - Birmingham, AL 8:30 AM WYZZ Fox 43 - Bloomington, IL 6:30 AM KHDT UPN 9 - Boise, ID WLVI WB 56 - Boston, MA 2:30 PM XHFOX Fox 17 - Brownsville, TX WUTV Fox 29 - Buffalo, NY 5:30 AM KFXA Fox 28 - Cedar Rapids, IA 8:00 AM WCCU/WRSP Fox 27/55 - Champaign, IL WFVT WB 55 - Charlotte, NC 7:00 AM WFLI UPN 53 - Chattanooga, TN WCIU Ind 26 - Chicago, IL 8:00 AM WSTR UPN 64 - Cincinnati, OH 5:30 AM WBNX Ind 55 - Cleveland, OH 5:30 AM WWHO WB 53 - Columbus, OH 7:00 AM KDFI IND 27 - Dallas, TX 8:30 AM WRGT Fox 45 - Dayton, OH 5:30 AM KTVD UPN 20 - Denver, CO 6:30 AM KDSM Fox 17 - Des Moines, IA WXON WB 20 - Detroit, MI 7:30 AM WSMH Fox 66 - Flint, MI 10:00 AM WTVK UPN 46 - Fort Myers, FL 5:30 AM KGMC WB 43 - Fresno, CA 7:00 AM WXMI Fox 17 - Grand Rapids, MI WAAP Ind 16 - Greensboro, NC WACY UPN 32 - Green Bay, WI 5:30 AM WHNS Fox 21 - Greenville, SC 5:30 AM WPMT Fox 43 - Harrisburg, PA 5:00 AM WTXX UPN 20 - Hartford, CT 3:30 PM KFVE UPN 5 - Honolulu, HI 6:30 AM KTXH UPN 20 - Houston, TX 5:30 AM WNDY WB 23 - Indianapolis, IN 6:30 AM WDBD Fox 40 - Jackson, MS WNFT UPN 47 - Jacksonville, FL 8:30 AM (only aired 20 episodes) KFBT WB 33 - Las Vegas, NV 9:00 AM WDKY Fox 56 - Lexington, KY KCOP UPN 13 - Los Angeles, CA 7:30 AM WFTE UPN 58 - Louisville, KY KMCI HSN 38 - Kansas City, MO WEMT Fox 39 - Kingsport, TN WiSC² Ind 14 - Madison, WI WLMT UPN 30 - Memphis, TN 7:30 AM WBFS UPN 33 - Miami, FL WVTV Ind 18 - Milwaukee, WI 6:30 AM KMSP UPN 9 - Minneapolis, MN 6:00 AM

WJTC UPN 44 - Mobile, AL WZTV Fox 17 - Nashville, TN 5:30 AM WGNO WB 26 - New Orleans, LA 2:30 PM WPIX WB 11 - New York, NY 6:30 AM WTVZ Fox 33 - Norfolk, VA KOKH Fox 25 - Oklahoma City, OK 5:30 AM KPTM Fox 42/KXVO WB 15 - Omaha, NE WRBW UPN 65 - Orlando, FL 7:00 AM WPSG UPN 57 - Philadelphia, PA 8:00 AM KASW WB 61 - Phoenix, AZ 8:30 AM WPTT UPN 22 - Pittsburgh, PA 6:00 AM WWBI UPN 27 - Plattsburgh, NY 3:00 PM KPTV UPN 12 - Portland, OR 6:00 AM WNAC Fox 64 - Providence, RI 5:30 AM WLFL Fox 22 - Raleigh, NC 2:30 PM KAME Fox 21 - Reno, NV WRLH Fox 35 - Richmond, VA 5:30 AM WJPR/WFXR Fox 21/27 - Roanoke, VA 2:30 PM WUHF Fox 31 - Rochester, NY 5:00 AM KTXL Fox 40 - Sacramento, CA 5:30 AM KPLR WB 11 - St. Louis, MO 7:30 AM KSTU Fox 13 - Salt Lake City, UT 5:30 AM KTTY WB 69 - San Diego, CA 7:30 AM KBHK UPN 44 - San Francisco, CA 2:30 PM WUBI WB 34 - Savannah, GA 2:30 PM KTZZ WB 22 - Seattle, WA 9:00 AM K05JQ UPN 5 - Springfield, MO WSYT Fox 68 - Syracuse, NY 5:30 AM WTTA Ind 38 - Tampa, FL 8:00 AM WFND UPN 47 - Toledo, OH KMSB Fox 11/KTTU UPN 18 - Tucson, AZ KTFO UPN 41 - Tulsa, OK KAKW UPN 62 - Waco, TX WBDC WB 50 - Washington, DC 8:00 AM WTVX UPN 34 - West Palm Beach, FL WOLF Fox 38 - Wilkes-Barre, PA If you guys know of any other stations that aired Sailor Moon, please reply and post them here. Also if anything on the list is not right please correct me. I would really appricate this.

As for Jackson Miss. on Channel 40 WDBD, it ran an 6:30 a.m. weekdays according to an old TV guide I managed to dig up. This was the edited version wasn't it.

It would have been better for the American version of Sailor Moon if it had been aired between 4 and 7 p.m., or in Prime Time for more viewers.

Well, it didn't start airing on Cartoon Network until June 1, 1998. Nationwide America viewers that wanted to watch Sailor Moon would have to view it on Foxnet in the following areas... Ada, Oklahoma Bismarck, North Dakota Burlington, Vermont Greenwood, Mississippi Meridian, Mississippi Presque Isle, Maine Wausau, Wisconsin

The Lionhearts TV Listings. Here are a list of stations that have aired the Lionhearts from September 1998 to August 1999 that I know of: WATL WB 36 - Atlanta, GA Sat 7:30 AM WNUV WB 54 - Baltimore, MD Sat 7:30 AM WABM UPN 68 - Birmingham, AL Sat 7:00 AM WBNX WB 55 - Cleveland, OH Sun 7:30 AM KDAF WB 33 - Dallas, TX Sat 11:00 AM WDWB WB 20 - Detroit, MI Sat 7:00 AM WTIC Fox 61 - Hartford, CT Sun 7:30 AM KSMO WB 62 - Kansas City, MO Sat 8:00 AM WCWB WB 22 - Pittsburgh, PA Sun 6:30 AM KUTP WB 45 - Phoenix, AZ Sat 9:00 AM WPXT Fox 51 - Portland, ME Sat 7:00 AM WBDC WB 50 - Washington, DC Sat 7:00 AM If you guys know of any stations that aired the Lionhearts, please reply and post them here. Also if anything on the list is not right please correct me. I would really appricate this. For phoenix, it's actually KUTP UPN 45, not WB 45, because the WB is WB 61 KASW. You're right anabate KUTP is UPN not WB, thank you for correcting me Would you please look though all the September 1998 to August 1999 weekend schedules that you have and post what time and channels did the Lionhearts air, i'd really appricate it.

Here's more! WXXA Fox 23 - Albany, NY Sat 7:00 AM KASY UPN 50 - Albuquerque, NM Sun 11:00 AM WGMB Fox 44 - Baton Rouge, LA Sat 6:00 AM WLVI WB 56 - Boston, MA Sat 7:00 AM WUTV Fox 29 - Buffalo, NY Sat 7:00 AM WPWR UPN 50 - Chicago, IL Sun 7:00 AM WXIX Fox 19 - Cincinnati, OH Sat 7:30 AM WRGT Fox 45 - Dayton, OH Sat 6:30 AM KTVD UPN 20 - Denver, CO Sat 8:30 AM KAIL UPN 53 - Fresno, CA Sat 8:30 AM WFBC Ind 40 - Greenville, SC Sat 8:30 AM WPMT Fox 43 - Harrisburg, PA Sun 8:30 AM KIKU Ind 20 - Honolulu, HI Sat 6:30 PM WXIN Fox 59 - Indianapolis, IN Sun 7:00 AM WDBD Fox 40 - Jackson, MS Sat 11:00 AM WAWS Fox 30 - Jacksonville, FL Sat 7:00 AM WBXX WB 20 - Knoxville, TN Sun 10:30 AM KVWB WB 21 - Las Vegas, NV Sat 7:30 AM WDKY Fox 56 - Lexington, KY Sun 7:00 AM WLMT UPN 30 - Memphis, TN Sat 10:00 AM WBZL WB 39 - Miami, FL Sun 7:30 AM WVTV WB 18 - Milwaukee, WI Sat 6:00 AM KMSP UPN 9 - Minneapolis, MN Sun 7:00 AM WJTC UPN 44 - Mobile, AL Sat 7:30 AM WNOL WB 38 - New Orleans, LA Sun 8:30 AM WPIX WB 11 - New York, NY Sat 7:30 AM WTVZ WB 33 - Norfolk, VA Sun 7:30 AM KOCB WB 34 - Oklahoma City, OK Sat 6:30 AM WOFL Fox 35 - Orlando, FL Sun 6:00 AM WPHL WB 17 - Philadelphia, PA Sat 7:30 AM WFFF Fox 44 - Plattsburgh, NY Sat 6:00 AM WNAC Fox 64 - Providence, RI Sat 7:00 AM WRDC UPN 28 - Raleigh, NC Sun 7:00 AM WRLH Fox 35 - Richmond, VA Sat 6:30 AM KQCA WB 58 - Sacramento, CA Sat 7:30 AM KPLR WB 11 - St. Louis, MO Sun 9:30 AM KRRT WB 35 - San Antonio, TX Sat 8:00 AM KSWB WB 69 - San Diego, CA Sun 10:00 AM KBHK UPN 44 - San Francisco, CA Sun 12:30 PM WNYS UPN 43 - Syracuse, NY Sat 7:30 AM WTTA Ind 38 - Tampa, FL Sat 7:30 AM KTTU UPN 18 - Tucson, AZ Sat 7:30 AM KTFO UPN 41 - Tulsa, OK Sat 6:30 AM

WFLX Fox 29 - West Palm Beach, FL Sat 7:30 AM WOLF Fox 56 - Wilkes-Barre, PA Sat 6:30 AM Thank you so very much anabate I really appriciate it. I sure wish that you have the ones for: Columbus, OH Houston, TX Los Angeles, CA Louisville, KY Nashville, TN Salt Lake City, UT Seattle, WA Tri-Cities, TN Does anybody else have the weekend schedules from September 1998 to August 1999 for those markets listed above? I was shown in Buenos Aires too, as late as 2009, always on Saturday-Sunday mornings at 6 AM. It also aired on.. WTVC ABC 9 - Chattanooga, TN Sat 7:00 AM WMTU UPN 16 - Jackson, TN Sat 10:00 AM Here is the revivised list of Lionhearts listings in the following markets that I covet the most. Bristol, TN Charlotte, NC Columbus, OH Houston, TX Los Angeles, CA Louisville, KY Nashville, TN Omaha, NB Portland, OR Salt Lake City, UT Seattle, WA If any of you guys have them, please post them here.

"Linus the Lionhearted" questions

Well, seeing "The Lionhearts" thread, it reminded me to ask about the classic cartoon "Linus the Lionhearted". Was wondering: (1) Not that Linus is that rare a name, but did Charles "Peanuts" Schulz have issues with the name Linus being used? (2) That show had a lot of big-name talent voicing the characters. Was there a reason behind that? I figure that quite a bundle of loot was blown on this talent. (Having watched some episodes recently after many years, I never thought of the cartoons to be that funny, or possibly somewhat adult/for-all-ages in nature, to warrant that expensive talent!) (3) Why was this even syndicated after its network run, if the FCC laid down the law about cartoon characters shown on Post Cereal boxes? Some characters were still on the boxes (even besides Sugar Bear), no? I remember seeing it in 1980 on ch 25 in Boston. (3) And....wasn't the closing theme the saddest music in cartoon history? Creepy for kids, I'd say.... cd Re: talent, there appears to be connections between most of the actors (Sheldon Leonard was exec producer of more than a few shows of that era including The Dick Van Dyke Show with Carl Reiner. Jonathan Winters worked with everyone as did Bob McFadden, though most of his work was voiceover (The First Family, When Your In Love The Whole World Is Jewish). I'm guessing it was just some fun and an extra payday for them. The Fcc didnt crackdown on the cartoons on cereal boxes till1969 some three years after the last original episode. My take? Sugar Bear was the coolest, but there was something else in that Sugar Crisp he was so fond of... I've mentioned this before, but "Linus" was aired on WJAN-TV 17 in Canton, Ohio as part of a local kid show called "Milton The Milkman" which ran afternoons from about 4-5PM during the 1970's. What was unique about this was they used absolutely horrible looking prints of the show..The show probably came cheap to them, as they couldnt often afford top line programming.. Well, seeing "The Lionhearts" thread, it reminded me to ask about the classic cartoon "Linus the Lionhearted". Was wondering:

(1) Not that Linus is that rare a name, but did Charles "Peanuts" Schulz have issues with the name Linus being used? cd I'm almost sure you can't copyright a name. If that were true, Charles Schulz would have had a bigger problem with the Coasters' hit song Charlie Brown, which came out in 1959, years after the Peanuts comic strip started. My father was an animator who did some work for Total Productions. IMDB states incorrectly that the Total shows were produced by Jay Ward (Bullwinkle), and that's inaccurate - though the producer - Peter Piech -had a longtime association with Ward. The Bullwinkle character Captain Peter "Wrong-way" Peachfuzz was Ward having fun with Piech's name. It was not unusual - even in those days - for "big names" to do cartoon voices, especially "big name" actors who were a bit past their prime, professionally. Among the people who did voices for Jay Ward shows were Hans Conreid (Snidley Whiplash), Charlie Ruggles (Aesop), and William Conrad (narrator on Bullwinkle) Even the professional voice-over artists of that day who did cartoon voices (Daws Butler, Paul Frees, etc) were no slouches. They were highly successful professionals who became very wealthy from their voiceover work. If you were an amination producer, it was really no more expensive to hire a big name actor than one of the voice-over pros. And actors like doing that work - it's easy, doesn't take much time, and pays well. "Linus" wasn't the only animated show of the time that had a maudlin signoff; ABC's "The Porky Pig Show" had its characters in a funk until Barbara Cameron's theme song reminds us that next week "we'll all have more fun, watching Porky, Porky Pig, he's the barnyard's Mr. Big." As for comments about voice actors, former radio actors were especially in demand; it's not as easy as it looks to read lines off a piece of paper with a minimum of rehearsal, and the animated shows tended to work this way. For instance, the original principal voices of "The Flintstones" were radio vets: Alan Reed ("Life With Luigi"), Jean Vander Pyl (Margaret Anderson on the radio version of "Father Knows Best"), Mel Blanc and Bea Benaderet (practically every show on radio). Likewise, "The Jetsons": George O'Hanlon had his own "George O'Hanlon Show" on Mutual in the early '50s; Penny Singleton played Blondie in both movies and radio; Daws Butler worked with Stan Freberg; Janet Waldo played Corliss Archer. And lest we forget, Arnold Stang ("Top Cat") worked with Milton Berle on both radio and television; and other radio veterans such as Jim Backus and Marvin Miller made good money doing cartoon voices.

Christmas Movies On Local Stations Growing up in Memphis, my family always looked forward to the many classic Christmas movies that WREG channel 3 showed every year. From the 1960s to the 1980s, every year you could count on channel 3 to show "Miracle On 34th Street," the 1930s "Christmas Carol," "Christmas In Connecticut," "The Holly and the Ivy," "The Bells Of St. Mary's," "Holiday Inn" (my favorite) and even "Santa Claus Conquers The Martians." Every New Year's Eve, they would show "It's A Wonderful Life." But looking at TV Guides from other markets, this seems not to have been very common. I have tv listings from the same period from cities where the locals stations didn't show even one Christmas movie. Did anyone else grow up in a city where there was a local station that had a tradition of showing Christmas movies?

seems to me, they did that on WTAE in Pittsburgh. I can remember reading that WREG had one of the largest and best classic film libraries in the nation until TCM started. I definitely remember them having movies all night, running from the 30's to the 70's. I couldn't see any sense in why they showed It's a Wonderful Life on New Year's Eve instead of before Christmas, especially after it got where almost every station in the nation was showing it multiple times. Yes for the Minneapolis-St. Paul stations - back in the 60s when CBS did not have latenight programming, WCCO would show movies, which turned to Christmas themes as the date approached. WTCN, the independent station, would always include Christmas movies in their late-night schedule. They included all the movies you mentioned.

Have not seen one on a local station since Santa Claus Conquers the Martians ran on our local LPTV station in Ohio back in the early 90's. WCVB in Boston used to run "White Christmas" in prime-time on a Friday night a week or two before Christmas, preempting ABC programming. IIRC that was between 19952005 or so. I can remember seeing the colorized version of Miracle on 34th Street in the early 90's on WJKT in Jackson, TN, which means it was probably also on WLMT in Memphis since

they did a lot of simulcasting at that time. WFFT Channel 55 in Fort Wayne ran at least a 24 hour holiday movie marathon from the late 70's to the early Fox years in the late 80's. They showed some that are almost forgotten today, like "Christmas In Conencticut" amd "Meet John Doe".

I remember WSBK-TV Channel 38 would show hours of movies during the ChristmasNew Year period, including Rudolf Nureyev in "Romeo and Juliet," "War And Peace" with Audrey Hepburn, Biblical dramas like "The Greatest Story Ever Told," Bing Crosby & Debbie Reynolds in "Say One For Me," and Go Nagai's Toei version of "The Little Mermaid," which was dubbed by a Boston company called G.G. Communications and featured "Sailor Moon" star Kristen Bishopric as Marina and her brother Thor as Fritz The Dolphin. And yes, they'd show "It's A Wonderful Life" and many others. I remember that on Christmas Day 1978, they presented 5 movies-3 without interruption-including "Dr. Doolittle" with Rex Harrison! Unbelievable how times change! There are a couple of movies that weren't shown this past Christmas season or else I didn't see them on or listed. One is "Holiday Inn" which featured the first use of the song, White Christmas (as well as some other Irving Berlin songs). "Going My Way" is another. It's not an actual Christmas movie as such although there is a reference in it and the movie ends close to that time of year. There are a number of the older TV series that have a Christmas episode (or two) that I haven't seen on for a number of years. That includes: Father Knows Best, Happy Days, Dragnet, The Jack Benny Program and even, The Millionaire. With the various nostalgia cable channels that feature the older series, I'm surprised they didn't get some air play on December 24-25. The Digital Networks-MeTv and Antenna TV-Played a lot of the Christmas Episodes mentioned.. WIVM-39-Digital Low Power in Canton, Ohio has done a lot of Public Domain Christmas shows over the years, including Jack Benny, 1950's Dragnet and Loretta Young.. Here's is The Christmas 2012 lineup From WVM's Facebook Page: Dec. 4 @ 12:30 PM - The Littlest Angel ■Dec. 5 @ 12:30 PM - The Great Rupert ■Dec. 6 @ 12:30 PM - Homeless for the Holidays ■Dec. 7 @ 12:30 PM - Ozzie and Harriet compilation of Christmas shows ■Dec. 10 @ 12:30 PM - Christmas Without Snow and Beverly Hillbillies Christmas

episode ■Dec. 10 @ 8 PM - Babes in Toyland (March of the Wooden Soldiers - Laurel and Hardy) I will post more next week. Also we have a lot of holiday fillers including Judy Garland singing Silent Night and several specials from the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. Because the decision on which to use are last miniute I can't tell you a head of time which fillers we will be using with which movies. Tune in and enjoy

■Dec. 11 - 12:30 PM: The Christmas Wife ■Dec. 11 - 2:00 PM: Puzzle Club Christmas Mystery ■Dec. 12 - 12:30 PM: Heidi (1968) ■Dec. 13 - 12:30 PM: Scrooge (1970) (has a Howdy Doody filler at the end) ■Dec. 14 - 12:30 PM Christmas in Conneticut ■Dec. 14 - 2:30 PM Mormon Tabernacle Choir - Christmas Meaning ■Dec. 15 - 6:00 PM: Scrooge (1970) ■Dec. 16 - 1:00 PM: The Great Rupert (1950) ■Dec. 16 - 2:30 PM: Mormon Tabernacle Choir - Silent Night ■Dec. 16 - 3:00 PM: Heidi (1968) . ■Dec. 20 12:30 PM - The Littlest Angel 2:00 PM - A Vow to Cherish 3:30 PM - Beverly Hillbillies Christmas episode ■Dec. 21 12:30 PM - 3 versions of Scrooge: 1935, 1951 and 1970 ■Dec. 22 5:00 PM - It Happened on Fifth Ave 7:00 PM - The Bishops Wife ■Dec. 23 1:00 PM - Meet John Doe 3:30 - Mormon Tabernacle Choir (MTC) - Bells of Christmas 4:00 PM - Puzzle Club Christmas Mystery 4:30 PM Abbott and Costello Christmas 6:00 PM - Scrooge (1935) ■Dec. 24: 9:00 AM - MTC - Bells of Christmas 9:30 AM - Prince of Peace 10:00 AM - MTC - Christmas Legacy

12:30 PM - The Shop Around the Corner 3:00 PM - A Christmas Carol (1951) 4:30 PM - Meet John Doe 7:00 PM - The Shepherd Boy 8:00 PM - A Vow to Cherish 9:30 PM - Homeless for Christmas; 11:30 PM - The Stable Boy ■Dec. 25: 6 AM - March of the Wooden Soldiers (AKA Babes in Toyland) 7:30 AM - Micah's Christmas Treasure 8:30 AM - Beyond Tomorrow (AKA Beyond Christmas) 12:30 PM - Christmas in Conneticut 2:13 PM - Homeless for Christmas 4:00 PM - The Bishops Wife 6:00 PM - Heidi; 8:00 PM - It Happened on Fifth Ave 10:00 PM - The Shop Around the Corner 12:00 AM - MTC - Bells of Christmas and Wonderous Christmas 1:00 AM - MTC - Silent Night and Christmas Meaning "Some of the movies run back to back with no breaks so the listings above are as close as we can make them." Most of this is Public Domain Material or, if not public Domain, probably inexpensive to obtain..

Question about Arsenio Hall I have a question concerning the Arsenio Hall show which aired from 1989-1994. Has any NBC affiliate pre-empted The Tonight Show or A Late Night with David Letterman for the Arsenio Hall show? I don't think they were many NBC affiliates, if any at all, that carried the original Arsenio Hall Show...if so, it was probably in the smallest markets; his affiliate base was mostly limited to CBS stations (for example, in Chicago, Baltimore, Atlanta, Cleveland), Fox (in San Diego, Philadelphia, Milwaukee, Kansas City), or independents (New York City, Los Angeles). I know there were also a smattering of ABC affiliates that carried Arsenio (for example, in Santa Barbara, Cal. and in my hometown of Rockford, Ill.). The Tonight Show (under Carson or Leno) wasn't pre-empted by any NBC station, except in Nashville and Milwaukee (both during different periods during the 1980s), although independent stations in both cities picked it up instead. Minneapolis-St. Paul and Birmingham both delayed the Carson Tonight Show by a half-hour for years before

finally airing the show in-pattern with the rest of the network. Letterman, however, may be a different story...someone may been able to answer that question. First a word about Arsenio's impending return. You probably won't see anyone pre-empt late night network talkers for the show that's launching this coming fall--but then again, there are so many more outlets now (a lot of independents, Fox stations, CW and MyNetwork affiliates out there that didn't exist in 1989) that Arsenio can get national carriage in almost all the top 150 markets without getting a substantial number of defections from the big three). Back in the day, all the NBC affiliates stayed with Carson because he was the leader and clearly no one was going to displace him (and no one ever did). Letterman wasn't even an issue at the 11 or 11:30 ET time period when Arsenio was usually carried most of his original run, because he was following Carson on NBC at 12:30 when Arsenio started (and wasn't head to head with him until the last nine months of Arsenio's original series).When Letterman DID start on CBS at the end of August 1993, literally every affiliate of CBS carried him from day one except KMEG in Sioux City, Iowa (which became a running joke on the show for six months until they picked him up too in the spring of 1994). A significant number of CBS, ABC and Fox affiliates DID try Arsenio and many got good results with him from 1989 through the summer of 1993. Letterman's arrival at CBS was what really clobbered Arsenio's first show. Dave grabbed a lot of the late night audience from the get go, especially in younger demos, at a time when Jay Leno was struggling to find his footing as Carson's successor. Arsenio is coming back to a very different environment in 2013 than the one he entered in 1989. The late night audience is both much bigger than it was in '89, and a lot more fragmented. All three of the biggest broadcast networks are competing now at 11:30 with formatically similar talk and variery shows (it's Letterman on CBS vs. Leno on NBC vs. Jimmy Kimmel on ABC, who is 17 to 20 years younger than his network competitors and 11 years younger than Arsenio). There's also Jon Stewart, Steven Colbert and Chelsea Handler drawing substantial audiences on channels that didn't even exist when Arsenio first hit the air. And Jimmy Fallon isn't far behind...he's probably going to be running the Tonight Show before long. How well will he do this time? He is a smart, talented guy, though he's also only a little younger than the rest of the baby boomers who have dominated late night TV on the networks since Carson's retirement 20 years ago. The typical late night viewer today is a 30-something who's more a contemporary of Jimmy Fallon or Chelsea Handler. This was talked about in another Arsenio thread a week or two ago. His former audience is now about 20 years older. He may get some of them back (and undoubtedly could have

huge numbers right off the bat) but will he come back with something new or will his old shtick work 20 years later. There's also a whole demographic who have never seen him host a talk show and only do what he's done the last few years (hosting Star Search, winning Celebrity Apprentice, guesting on various talk shows). So can he win again with Burton Richardson and ARSENIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HALLLLLLLLLLLLL; Michael Wolf and The Posse; the dogpound; Kick It Sandy; the John B Williams Poetry Moment; and, hopefully, Star Parodi on drums? Or does he have to come up with something else? PHL17 here in Philadelphia is alreadly blitzing the airwaves with promos 8 months out from the show's debut. I hope the show lasts longer than the hype. ...I have a feeling it won't. It'll be no different than the last times Jack Paar and Dick Cavett were brought back onto late-night commercial network TV. Tom Snyder lasted longer largely because (a) his CBS show was simply the same as the NBC show he had success with until Roger Ailes turned it fubar, and (b) it was notably different from the rest of the offerings at the time (it was an old-school broadcaster calmly conversing with guests instead of a comedian trying to wring laughs out of every minute on the show). Arsenio won't make it past 13 weeks without radical changes in his show's structure since the last time he was on late night... If I remember correctly Arsenio Hall was the replacement for Joan Rivers, who sealed her fate when she betrayed Carson by launching her own talker competing with Carson. She is currently the host of Fashion Police on E! What really boosted Hall was the aftermath of the L.A. Riots. He became the spokesman for the Young Black community. Yes, Hall was made host of THE LATE SHOW but for only 13 weeks in 1987 - he had already commited to doing "Comming to America" with Eddie Murphy, and FOX had lined up what became a bigger disaster, "The Wilton North Report" - which when that falled, they were unable to get Hall back as he had commited to his own show syndicated by Paramount Television. If FOX could have gotten Hall back - the landscape of Late Night television might look different today. National Clearance at 11pm, and a strong network - not a syndicator behind him - might have better weathed Dave Letterman's 11:30pm move to CBS. (Which cost Hall affilates,time-slots and Viewers) The thing is, Hall is going into what is a 5 player field - Dave,Jay,Jimmy K on Broadcast,and Conan and John Stewart on Cable. Not to mention WHY the CBS' syndication arm is putting up a show that will compete with Dave on their own network! (I don't subscribe to the theory they are trying him out as a possible replacement for Dave with a jump to the network when the time comes.)

If I remember correctly...What really boosted Hall was the aftermath of the L.A. Riots. He became the spokesman for the Young Black community. ...the L.A. Riots were in April of 1992, over three years after Hall started in syndication. What actually boosted Hall was the failure of The Pat Sajak Show in 1990, which led quite a few of Sajak's CBS affiliates to pick up Hall as a replacement (provided an indie or Fox affiliate hadn't already grabbed him)... There was a station that ran Arsenio between Carson and Letterman. The ABC station in Columbia MO (KMIZ) carried Arsenio, delaying Nightline If I remember correctly Arsenio Hall was the replacement for Joan Rivers, who sealed her fate when she betrayed Carson by launching her own talker competing with Carson. She is currently the host of Fashion Police on E! What really boosted Hall was the aftermath of the L.A. Riots. He became the spokesman for the Young Black community. Arsenio took away younger viewers from Carson, he had guests Carson would never have on. Arsenio won't last if he still thinks it's 1990 I seem to remember WMGM-TV in South Jersey running Arsenio in the early '90s -- at 2:00 AM, after Later with Bob Costas. They may have been the only NBC affiliate east of Mississippi to run the program

Peter Jennings 15-minute newscast on ABC, 1966 Back in the '60s, ABC was a perennial third-rated network, and was the last of the big three to expand their nightly newscast from 15 minutes to a half-hour. At the time it occurred for ABC, and I believe it was around New Years, 1967, the anchor was a young Peter Jennings in his first go-round at the anchor desk. Back then, as a young teenager, I appreciated ABC's move to place a younger guy in the anchor chair, and would actually tune in to this nightly newscast, and to this day recall the theme music. I knew that somewhere in my ancient reel-to-reel recordings, I had a fairly low-res copy of that theme music, taped from the TV on a really lo-fi home tape recorder, and I found that recording today. Listening to the announcer promo both COMBAT and THE FUGITIVE, we can tell that this newscast happened on a Tuesday, and since both are listed as "in color", it had to be from the 1966-1967 season. I suspect that it was in the fall of 1966, because, if memory serves, the theme music changed when the show went to a half-hour after the first of 1967, and this was the older music from the 15-minute show. Since I find no reference to any of this on the web, I thought I'd put it up on YouTube,

with a few photos from around that time. The first is some kind of conceptual art regarding the set they used; the second is Jennings actually on the set, plus two more shots of his younger self. The final ABC NEWS screen is a fabrication by me based on the logo of around that time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDVjoqXAnRA It was nice, if you were in late childhood or early teens, to see a young guy in the anchor chair on ABC, but there was no way Jennings could compete with Cronkite or Huntley-Brinkley; critics called him "that kid on ABC." Fortunately, Jennings made a smart career move when he asked to be allowed to get out in the field; I still consider him the premier anchor of the post-Cronkite era. Does anyone recall that when Jennings was on for 15 minutes, ABC had eight feeds of his newscast, between 5:30 and 7:30 PM? I've mentioned this before, but I can remember in the fall of 1966 the ABC station in Richmond carried him at 5:45 and I was completely flabbergasted at a network newscast coming on that early in the Eastern time zone. From January 1967 to September 1968 ABC still had four feeds (5:30, 6, 6:30, and 7)-all to try to entice its affiliates to carry the newscast when it wouldn't have to go up against CBS and/or NBC. A lot of them might have stuck had Frank Reynolds (the first time) not gotten the anchor job in '68; he was deemed too liberal for some station owners, who dropped the broadcast, and it would essentially take Harry Reasoner to bring them back. Believe it or not, since we often talk about WBRC's doing its own world newscast, they did carry Jennings the first time around; this was one of those stations that dropped ABC's newscast with the coming of Reynolds. OTOH, there was never any question of WBRC's carrying "World News Tonight" (even with both Reynolds and Jennings), but 1978 was not 1968 either (ABC's newscast has been cleared in Birmingham continuously since August 1972, first on WBRC, then--from 1996--on ABC33/40). I believe the Peter Jennings newscast was still in black-and-white (except for occasions in 1966 during space shots and on the mid-term Election Night, when it originated from a studio already converted to color) until January, 1967 when it went to a half-hour. I recall seeing a magazine ad from the end of 1966 with a photo of Jennings--the lefthand-side in black-and-white, the right-hand-side in color. The copy said something to the effect that "Starting January 9th, Peter Jennings gives you twice the news each weeknight n ABC". It went on to note that the newscast was expanding from 15 to 30 minutes, and from black-and-white to color.

HGN2001: Do you have the entire soundtrack of the newscast on audio tape?? If you do, you might want to upload it on You Tube. Since network newscast archives (especially at ABC and NBC) were spotty in that era, it's possible that no videotape or kinescope exists of that particular newscast. It also would be interesting to hear (if not being able to see) what network news was like in 1966. If my memory serves me correct, ABC had wanted to expand it's early-evening news to a half-hour as far back as 1963 (when CBS and NBC did so), but it's affiliates refused to give up an extra fifteen minutes to expand what at the time was a newscast deeply mired in a distant third place in the ratings, and that it wasn't until late 1966 that the network finally got it's affiliates in-line and was able to expand the news to a half-hour as of January 9th, 1967. Unfortunately I do not. I was sure that I had a recording of the theme music, because I liked it, so I went on a hunt to find it. Then I had to go on an Internet hunt for any kind of images from that era, and there aren't very many. What I also found in my audio tapes is a recording of what I believe is the revamped opening later that year, but no full broadcasts. I may upload that when I can get around to it. I believe your dates are all correct regarding the dates of the change from 15-minutes to a half-hour. I have seen a promo for this newscast in an old copy of Readers Digest. Evidently it must have been from 1967. It had Jennings face divided with a line down the middle, half in color and half in black and white. The message being that his newscast was expanding to 30 minutes and going to color.

List of stations carring 1980's Movie Macabre Does anyone know if threre is a list of stations that carried the 1980's original version of Elvira's Movie Macabre? I read once it was limited to the top 50 markets when it came out but may have later been available to lower markets. Thanks.

From memory, there are two stations I know for certain that carried Elvira: KHJ/KCAL Los Angeles and WCGV Milwaukee. Both stations aired the showcase around 10 or 11pm local time, depending on the year.

As I recall,it cleared in Boston for a time on WQTV-68 once it was no longer an OTA Pay outlet. WOIO/19 in Cleveland carried it for a while on Saturday nights circa 1985. ...I recall seeing Movie Macabre in Green Bay, and I'm pretty sure it was on indie WGBA/26. However, it may have moved over to Fox affiliate WXGZ/32 Appleton after I moved out of the market; perhaps Bluenoser has info on that ... WTXX/20 in Waterbury, CT and KNXV/15 in Phoenix also carried "Elvira's Movie Macabre" back in the 80's as well. WGBO-TV 66 Chicago carried it as well. WGGT Channel 48 in Greensboro, North Carolina aired "Elvira's Movie Macabre" on Saturday evenings in the early 1980s. KDVR 31 carried Elvira during its Indie days Cheers & 73

U.S. Stations Clearing Prisoner Cell Block H I'm working on a project and need to document American stations that cleared PCBH in its original syndicated run. I know that by 1981 it was carried on at least 38 U.S. stations. Below is a list of affiliates I've been able to confirm. I'm missing about half of them. If anyone can recall stations not already listed, I would really appreciate your input. Thanks! KMEG, Sioux City, IA (1980-81) 10PM X5 KPHO, Phoenix, AZ (1980-82) 10:30PM X5 KPLR, St. Louis, MO (1980-?) 10:30PM x5 KTLA, Los Angeles, CA (1979-81) 8PM/11:30PM X2 KTVU, San Francisco, CA (1980) 11PM X5 KVVU, Las Vegas, NV (1980-81) 11:30PM+ X5

KWGN, Denver, CO (1980-?) 10PM X5 KYW, Philadelphia, PA (1980-81) 5PM X5 WATL, Atlanta, GA (airing in 1983) Noon X5 WDRB, Louisville, KY (1980-81) 11:30PM X5 WGN, Chicago, IL (1980-82) WIVB, Buffalo, NY (1980-81) 7PM X5 WJZ, Baltimore, MD (1981-83) 11:30PM X2 WKBD, Detroit, MI (1980-82) 10:30PM x5 WKYT, Lexington, KY (1980-81) Noon X5 WLVI, Boston. MA (1980-?) 11PM X5 WPIX, New York City (1980-81) 11/11:30PM X5 WPCQ, Charlotte, NC (1980-81) 7:30PM X5 WTTG, Washington, D.C. (1980-?) 11PM X5 WTVX, Boca Raton/West Palm Beach, FL (1980-81) 7PM X5 WXEX, Petersburg-Richmond, VA (1980-81) Midnight X5 WHTM, Harrisburg PA (1980-81), 4:30PM X5

Times Square On New year's Eve Just wondering when you first saw TV coverage of Times Square on New Year's Eve? My first memory where I can put a date with it would have been on New Year's Eve 1956 (welcoming in 1957). Pretty sure it was Ben Grauer on the NBC-TV Network and it was sponsored by G.E. Telechron Clocks. A clock (apparently the sponsor's product) with a second hand was superimposed on the screen as the cheering crowd was seen. According to TV listings from vintage issues of The New York Times, the first live

telecast of the New Year's Eve festivities in Times Square was on December 31st, 1945 over WNBT in New York. By this time, some WNBT programming was also being fed to WPTZ Philadelphia and WRGB Schenectady, so it is possible that the coverage may have also been telecast in those two areas as well. As I have not seen vintage Philadelphia or Albany/Schenectady TV listings for that date, I can't tell you if it was seen in either city. On the first New Year's Eve after commercial TV came here to Boston (December 31st, 1948), NBC-TV broadcast New Year's programming from 8 to 9 P.M. and again from 9:40 P.M. until 2 A.M.; CBS carried a New Year's show from 11 P.M. to 12:30 A.M. (network broadcast times based on the TV listings page of that day's New York Times). WBZ-4 appears to have carried the full NBC programming; while WNAC-7 picked-up the CBS show in progress at 11:45 P.M. Interestingly enough, according to the Times, three of the guests on the CBS show were Larry Fine, Moe Howard, and Shemp Howard, better known as The Three Stooges. In more recent times, WSBK-38 in Boston has broadcast a marathon of Stooges' shorts (mainly the early ones, where Curly Howard was the "third stooge") on New Year's Eve; WSBK will do so again this coming New Year's (Monday, December 31st). My first memory where I can put a date with it would have been on New Year's Eve 1956 (welcoming in 1957). Pretty sure it was Ben Grauer on the NBC-TV Network and it was sponsored by G.E. Telechron Clocks. A clock (apparently the sponsor's product) with a second hand was superimposed on the screen as the cheering crowd was seen. ...Ben Grauer covered the New Year's Eve festivities in Times Square for NBC-TV eleven times between 1951 and 1969, and then covered them for CBS-TV's 1970s Guy Lombardo specials until both Grauer and Lombardo died in 1977. Grauer had earlier (superbly) covered the festivities in Times Square upon the announcement of the pending Japanese surrender in World War II on 14 August 1945 for NBC Radio... Talk about typecasting! BTW, I think Ben Grauer also did New Year's Eve coverage from Times Square on NBC Radio for a lot of years; some of it may have been simulcast with NBC-TV. There were times when Ben Grauer would open the NBC Radio coverage of Times Square shortly before midnight. He then brought in Bob Wilson to describe things for the radio audience and advised he was going over to NBC-TV. Wilson then covered for radio up past midnight and Grauer may have returned to wrap things up from there. When New Year's Eve fell on some weeknights in the 1960's, Grauer was seen covering the Times Square celebration during Johnny Carson's show. Prior to midnight, Carson would switch to him on the scene for up-dates and there was some comedy involved on

Carson's part.

YouTube has the complete New Year's Eve 1965 Tonight show, complete with all the commercials, and even the 11:15-11:30 block with Ed and the band. "Tonight" had been aired in color for about 5 years by then, but the Times Square remotes with Ben Grauer are in black and white.

Isn't the December 31st, 1965 "Tonight Show" the oldest complete episode preserved in color?? The only thing I've seen of that Tonight Show is the 15-minute "pre-show" with Ed McMahon and Skitch Henderson, as well as the commercials and the events leading to the Ball Drop on Times Square.. Network Game Shows Uncleared by Affiliates

Living in Phoenix from 1983-85, I seem to remember All-Star Blitz not carried on thenABC affiliate KTVK; then-independent KPHO picked it up (during the credits, they would play their news theme over the continuity voiceover).

In Boston, Match Game '90 was on then-indie WHLL instead of WCVB as this promo explains: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O8TSDDwrXU

The networks ,especially NBC should have penalized the hell out of their affiliates for refusing to air game shows in the late 1970's until the early 1990's. Nice thought, but in most markets back in the 70s and 80s where would they go? For example, in Boston NBC was not happy with WBZ preempting shows (especially the 12p hour for news and local programming like "People are Talking".) But what were the options? WNAC was owned by RKO General and they preempted a great deal of ABC programming between 1961-1972, mainly for local talk shows and movies. (They were better when they switched to CBS in March 1972). Channel 5 was not an option - WHDH was in hearings over their license, and when they lost and WCVB came on they forged a close association with ABC that lasts to this day. That would leave the UHF stations (which often carried the non-cleared programming). Back in the day before cable it was unthinkable for a network to be on a UHF station when a VHF station was available. VHF was easier to get in over-the-air, and the idea of an "NBC 38" or "NBC 56" sounded like a step down. Plus WSBK channel 38 had a full schedule of Boston Red Sox baseball

and Boston Bruins hockey it did not want to give up for prime-time programming.

^ A station would pretty much have to be a network O&O to run the schedule right, but like I said before, even *that* didn't stop NBC O&O WTVJ in 1989, cough Super Password cough. cd

Like that in Charleston too. We did not have an independent until 1985. If something was preempted on one of the local big 3, there was no place to put it.

For a lot of years that it was an NBC affiliate, WBZ-4 here in Boston didn't clear several NBC daytime game shows. For instance (and this still hurts almost 39 years later!), my all-time favorite NBC game show, the original "Jackpot!", was never cleared by WBZ. Thankfully, WJAR-10 in Providence, did carry it, but at 1 P.M. ET (an hour after some east Coast stations got the show). During my senior year of high-school, I actually on some days got home from school (given a ride) at 1:15, so I could watch half of the show! ...interestingly, nobody's yet brought up the short-lived KCIT/50 Kansas City on this thread; David P. Johnson's fanpage for the station says that, during KCIT's short lifespan (October 1969 to July 1971) there were several NBC daytime shows that WDAF-TV/4 passed on, of which the games Letters to Laugh-In and Lohman & Barkley's Name Droppers wound up airing on KCIT instead. It Takes Two was apparently also scheduled by KCIT but they never actually ran the thing (CBS fed reruns of The Lucy Show at the same time, 9:00 AM Central, and KCIT tape-delayed those reruns, so it's possible that KCIT didn't have a second VTR to record the NBC feed at the same time). Neither WDAF or KCIT ran Snap Judgment during that same stretch. Apparently, the other indie in Kansas City, KBMA/41, ran the CBS airings of The Joker's Wild that KCMO-TV/5 pre-empted... In Birmingham, the local ABC at the time WBRC and WVTM NBC station would either delay the daytime shows by a day or wouldn't even bother to carry them at all. They had Donanue and local news on their minds at that time. WBMG (Now WIAT) was the exception to that rule. They carried all the daytime network shows, at their right time and that particular day's edition too. They were a low rated UHF station, during this time and was trying to stay afloat.

In Montgomery, the local TV stations did carry all the daytime network programs. One exception was WSFA airing local news at noon and delaying the start of Days till 12:30 P.M. Good Old WAKA (Formerly WSLA) was not known for preempting the network daytime programming. They usually carried them, at their right time. One exception was back in the late 70s. For about a year, they would air The PTL Club (Insert Your Here) at 10 A.M. Price was aired at 3 P.M. during that year but then returned to its original time slot, following that experiment. To anotherguy and Memphis readers, I did notice that WMC wasn't carrying all the NBC daytime shows, during the 80s. Had a relative living there, during that time and she would share a copy of the local newspaper with me and discovered this. I wondered why WMC would preempt many of those shows and as I was reading through this post, I discovered why. R.D.P. <>< In the heyday of the 80s game show explosion, most of the TV stations in my market would follow this pattern: 6 A.M. National News and Talk Show 8 A.M. Syndicated talk show 9 A.M. till 3 P.M. Network programming. Birmingham and Mobile was like this: 6 A.M. Local News 7 A.M. National News and Talk Show (Delayed by one hour) 9 A.M. Syndicated Talk Show 10 A.M. till 3 P.M. Network Programming (Delayed by a day in Birmingham on WBRC and WVTM) Every TV station I kept up with back then, would always sneak in at least one syndicated talk show at 8 A.M. or 9 A.M. Some would carry more than one. This is when Oprah first got started. After a spell these stations moved her to the afternoon and restored those shows they dropped for her new program. ... the other indie in Kansas City, KBMA/41, ran the CBS airings of The Joker's Wild that KCMO-TV/5 pre-empted... In Tampa Bay, Sarasota ABC-affiliate WXLT (WWSB) ran CBS's "The Jokers Wild" on a half-hour delay from 1972 to 1975, when it was bumped by WTVT by the last 30 minutes of Mike Douglas.

It wasn't always like that in Birmingham. From the time Ch. 13 became fulltime NBC and Ch. 42 fulltime CBS (1970) until I moved to Tampa (1973) only one game show aired on delay in the Magic City: "The Dating Game" on WBRC, which was pre-empted at 1:30 (CT) by reruns of "I Dream Of Jeannie" and which aired the next day at 9:30 AM. From 1972 on, which I remember most clearly, we got: WBRC/6 (ABC) 9:30 Dating Game (delay) 11 AM Password 11:30 Split Second 12:30 Let's Make A Deal 1 PM Newlywed Game WAPI/13 (NBC) 9:30 Concentration (replaced by "Baffle" on 3/26/73) 10 AM Sale Of The Century 10:30 Hollywood Squares 11 AM Jeopardy! 11:30 Who, What Or Where 12:30 Three On A Match WBMG/42 (CBS) 9 AM Joker's Wild (beginning 9/4/72) 9:30 Price Is Right (beginning 9/4/72, replaced by "$10,000 Pyramid" on 3/26/73) 10 AM Gambit (beginning 9/4/72) 2 PM Price Is Right (beginning 3/26/73) 2:30 Hollywood's Talking (beginning 3/26/73, replaced by "Match Game" on 7/2/73, two days after I moved to Tampa) In Tampa, not only did WTVT pre-empt "Joker's Wild," it also pre-empted "Tattletales" whenever it aired at 4 PM. Interestingly we did get one game show that was subject to pre-emption on the East Coast: "The Money Maze," which aired in pattern on WLCY (WTSP)/10 at 4 PM from December 1974 to July 1975. WFLA/8 (NBC), which had pre-empted NBC's 10 AM show for years, began airing "Dinah's Place" in September 1973, and aired "Name That Tune" when it replaced Dinah in 1974. All the other NBC games aired in pattern in the Bay Area in 1973-76. When I moved to Tampa in the summer of 1973 the game-show picture (as compared to Birmingham) looked like this: WFLA/8 (NBC) 10:30 Baffle 11 AM Wizard Of Odds (Alex Trebek's first U.S. game show) 11:30 Hollywood Squares

12 N Jeopardy! (Art Fleming) 12:30 Who, What Or Where 1:30 Three On A Match WLCY/10 (ABC) 12 N Password 12:30 Split Second 1:30 Let's Make A Deal 2 PM Newlywed Game 2:30 The Girl In My Life (technically a reality show rather than a game show) WTVT/13 (CBS) 10:30 $10,000 Pyramid (as noted, "Joker's Wild" aired at 10:30 on Sarasota's Ch. 40) 11 AM Gambit 3 PM Price Is Right 3:30 Match Game '73 Orlando also tended to be pre-emption prone. WESH/2 (NBC) ran local news instead of "Who, What Or Where"; WFTV/9 (ABC) aired "Password" on a day-behind at 11 AM so it could run local news at noon; it also pre-empted "Money Maze"; WDBO/WKMG/6 (CBS) pre-empted "Tattletales" at 4 and also pre-empted "Now You See It" at 11 AM in favor of "What's My Line?". Like the above post, WTVJ 4 Miami, in its last full year as a non-O&O CBS affiliate, ran "$25,000 Pyramid" at 10 AM, but bumped the 10:30 show (I think it was the "Card Sharks" revival with Bob Eubanks), to air what had to be one of the worst game shows ever, a TV version of "Yahtzee" with Peter Marshall. Then it was back to CBS for "Price is Right." "Press Your Luck" was not shown here during its CBS run, but, WSVN (still NBC I think) ran the reruns for syndication. WSVN also ran "Tattletales" which I think was a syndie run. cd Don't know if this has been mentioned, but in Pittsburgh, WTAE had an on-again offagain relationship with The Dating Game during its ABC daytime run. Since the Great TV Affiliation Shake-Ups Of 1994 And 1995, most "big three" affiliates have cleared their network's complete daytime schedule, and usually in pattern. But not always: Some CBS affiliates, including WBZ-4 in Boston, run the new "Let's Make A Deal" with Wayne Brady at 10 A.M. EST/EDT; while some other East Coast CBS stations air it at 3 P.M. EST/EDT. I suspect CBS may actually feed the show twice in the Eastern time zone, with affiliates given the option as to which feed to take.

Likewise, WBZ did this with "Guiding Light" during the final years of that show's long run.

You are right - CBS does feed the show twice. Where I live, in Harrisburg, WHP 21 carries it at 10am. I believe they were originally going to carry the show at 3pm (WHP had been choosing the 3pm CBS feed up to that point) with the then-new show "The Doctors" at 10am, but they had a last-minute change of heart. NYC, Philly, Scranton, Baltimore, Washington, and Pittsburgh all carry the show at 10am as well. AFAIK, the only CBS station I can think of that carries it at 3 is WTAJ out of Altoona. WSVN also ran "Tattletales" which I think was a syndie run. I don't remember Tattletales airing in off-net syndication, but a quick search suggests that it did. Other stations that may (repeat, may) have carried it in this manner include Boston's WCVB, Harrisburg's WHTM, and Norfolk's WVEC.

Tattletales had a once a week syndicated nighttime version during the 1977-78 season. WOWT 6, then Omaha's CBS affiliate, aired it Saturday nights at 6:30 p.m.

Just to clarify, the examples above refer to what appears to have been an off-net strip in the mid-'80s of the '82-84 CBS revival (the version with the inferior theme music ). Getting back to WSVN, it looks like it was carried until the fall of '85; see http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1985-09-15/entertainment/8502080745_1_weekdaygame-show-headline-chasers.

I believe the WSVN Tattletales was a Mon-Fri run.....apparently reruns of the weekday show. They did that with PYL. cd

You are right - CBS does feed the show twice. Per Wikipedia, the double-feed dates back to 2006 (for Guiding Light).

I don't remember Tattletales airing in off-net syndication, but a quick search suggests that it did. Other stations that may (repeat, may) have carried it in this manner include

Boston's WCVB, Harrisburg's WHTM, and Norfolk's WVEC. I'll vouch for WHTM - per my Fall Preview issue from '84, they aired it at 10:30 a.m. weekdays. They are an ABC station, so nothing was pre-empted. I thought I saw on WTAJ's website that they had moved "Let's Make A Deal" to 10 AM, leaving WSEE Erie as the only CBS affiliate in Pennsylvania that still carries it at 3. CBS does three feeds: 9 AM, 10 AM, and 3 PM (ET); offhand the only station in the Eastern time zone I can think of that airs it at 9 is WTKR Norfolk. I've estimated that about 50 stations carry "LMAD" in the morning, as opposed to 15 that carried "GL" at 10 AM. And those morning stations actually do better with "Deal" than those that carry it in the afternoons. I'm really surprised that more stations don't carry "Deal" in the morning, since it's compatible with "The Price Is Right," which follows on most of those stations. ("Guiding Light," like most soaps, wasn't really suited to the morning, especially when I consider that "Love Of Life" is the only soap that had a respectable run in the morning (11:30 AM in the East), lasting there from 1969 to 1979.) I do know that every CBS affiliate in the I-95 corridor (Boston to Richmond) carries "Deal" in the morning; likewise every CBS o&o except San Francisco, Minneapolis, and Denver does the same thing. Likewise, Virginia is like Pennsylvania; only one station, WDBJ Roanoke, carries it at 3, yet every CBS affiliate in North Carolina carries it at 3, and the only people in the Tar Heel state that see "Deal" in the morning are those in range of Norfolk or Florence, SC.

Yeah, Charleston has aired LMAD at 3 since it began. I was looking at previous schedules, and this area did have a lot of preemptions. WCIV (Channel 4, then NBC) never cleared NBC's 10am programs from 1983-89. They didn't clear Sale of the Century, maybe not for its entire run. For example, in 86-87, WCIV preempted Sale and the 10:30am show with Hollywood Squares and Love Connection. They preempted it in 88-89, its last season, with a rerun of Family Ties. For a while, they preempted the game shows for the 700 Club. They also preempted Dream House for much of its run to air CNN News back when it still aired on regular channels. They also preempted Super Password's first season to run Sally Jesse Raphael.

Growing up in Portland, Oregon, the CBS station will the king of uncleared shows until now. In the 1970s and early 1980s, KOIN-TV didn't air "The Price is Right." They aired "Donahue" at 9am and then a local show at 10am. When the local show was dropped in the early 1980s, KOIN aired reruns of "The Jeffersons" and "One Day at the Time" (CBS daytime) over "TPIR." I think KOIN either brought back or started airing "TRIP" around 1982. I don't know if KOIN first aired "TRIP" when it returned to TV in 1972 and then dropped it shortly after, but I was born in 1979. Then, KOIN didn't aired "Search for Tomorrow" in the '70s as well. Portland onepowerful independent station KPTV (now a FOX station) cleared the show. KOIN did air the show in their last few years on CBS until moving to NBC in 1982. When "Search for Tomorrow" moved to NBC, KOIN didn't not clear CBS' new soap opera "Capitol" in 1982. This was probably a good move for KOIN because they expanded their Noon newscast to an hour. It was only Noon newscast a few years later in the Portland market. Plus, it was a highly rated newscast. However, it would take many years for KOIN to clear "Bold and the Beautiful." KOIN did air "Bold" briefly in the Fall of 1989, but it aired at 3pm. When Emmis brought KOIN-TV from Lee Enterprises in 2000, "Bold and the Beautiful" was finally aired in Portland. I am not a big soap opera guy, but that was the only uncleared show that bothered me because it that time "Bold" was the second-highest rated soap opera in the country. Now, KOIN airs all of the CBS shows, but airs "Let's Make a Deal" at 9am. As for KATU, the ABC station in Portland, they have been the most loyal to the ABC network. I can't speak before 1979, but they have aired majority of their daytime shows. They even aired the final seasons of "The Edge of Night" when many ABC stations dropped it completely in the 1980s. However, they aired "All My Children" at 3pm for many years until recently. KATU aired News or syndicated programming at Noon in the 1980s. As for KGW, the NBC station, it was a mixed bag. They did air most the the NBC daytime shows, expect for "The Doctors" and "Texas" in the early 1980s. I don't remember those show anyway. KGW did air movies at 2pm in 1980. I think "Texas" did air on KGW in 1981 when they dropped daytime movies completely from their schedule. Then, KGW didn't air the first hour of NBC daytime programming in the Fall of 1982 because of local/regional programming. Plus, KGW aired syndicated programming at 11:30am in the early 1980s. I do remember KGW airing syndicated shows like "Newlywed Game," "Tic Tac Dough" and "Anything for Money" at 11:30am, but I don't recall dropping NBC programming during the mid 1980s. They did air "Super Password," "Wheel of Fortune," and "Sale of the Century." In 1987, KGW did not air the NBC version of "Win, Lose or Draw" because the daytime version aired on KATU at 7pm. KGW aired their own local game show called "On the Spot." In my area, from sometime in the early '70s until 1980, WGAL aired its noon news

(known then as "Noonday on 8") at 12:30. This meant any NBC offering that aired at 12:30 never aired in this area. When "America Alive!" was on in 1978, WGAL aired the first half hour, from 12-12:30, and then aired their news. In 1980, when "Another World" was scaled back from 90 to 60 minutes (moving from 2:30-4:00 to 2:00-3:00), which resulted in "The Doctors" moving from 2:00 to 12:30, WGAL moved "Noonday" from 12:30 to 12:00 to make room for "the Doctors". This move signaled the end of "Card Sharks" (which moved from 10:00 to 12:00) on WGAL, and every subsequent show after that aired at noon. So, no "Password Plus" (once it moved to noon), "The Doctors" (once it moved to noon), "Go!", or "Super Password". WHP (CBS) was pretty faithful at airing the CBS lineup in pattern until the early '90s when it started airing talk shows from 10am-11am. However, WLYH (another CBS affiliate in the area) did air the CBS 10am-11am offerings. Also, when WHP stopped having a noon newscast in the early '90s, they started airing the CBS "Family Feud" at noon. When the show expanded to an hour and became "Family Feud Challenge", WHP aired the last half hour of it at noon. WHTM (ABC) was also very faithful at airing the ABC lineup in pattern up until about the late '80s. Starting in the fall of 1988, they aired "Family Medical Center" at noon instead of "Ryan's Hope" (which was on its last legs anyway and would be gone in January 1989). They aired the new version of "Match Game" at noon from its July 1990 premiere until September, when they opted for "Trump Card" instead. When TC tanked, they replaced it in January with reruns of "People's Court". That June, for the last month of its run, WHTM went back to airing "Match Game" at noon and carried the complete 90 minute run of "Home" when it expanded from 60 to 90.

Cozi TV Today is Day 1 of Cozi, and I only woke up less than 1 hour ago, so I have not viewed much of it. I do notice the following: The "Lassie" espisode had crisp video, with Classic Media distributor at the end. The promos I have seen so far seem to be quality video as well. But oh, "The Beverly Hillbillies"! Apparently they only have access to those publicdomain episodes, with the original theme covered up. (I could not understand why this is done, because the incidental music during the episode stays.) The sound as almost "AM"like! Also why is Hillbillies TV PG? Also, I guess because of the 16:9 deal, the (poor quality) picture also seems to be "blown

up" slightly; the heads of some of the characters seem to be cut off, or at least at the tiptop of the screen. (I use a converter box w/ analog TV, so I do not see all the effects.) Does MeTV have quality access/rights to these same episodes? cd I also thought it was very odd that they had the TV-PG identifier. I also thought it was very odd that they had the TV-PG identifier. Perhaps Donna Douglas is *cough* radioactive. Hillbillies having a TV-PG rating? That is strange. If it's not because of Ms Douglas' character Elly May, perhaps Miss Jane could be pushing the envelope? I know, just kidding, but Irene Ryan could be hot.

The network will only be available in a 4:3 format, giving the black pilarboxes on the sides of the screen. I'm getting the station via WVIT-TV 30-2 of New Britain/Hartford (an NBC O & O station). As for the TV ratings box, they have to have that since it's an over-the-air service. Let's see how they handle it this weekend when they have to run the three hours of E/I programming! I understand the TV ratings box, but I don't think that Antenna TV ever had it, nor does my Antenna affiliate even have a logo bug. Now THAT's old time TV! cd PS ... It's possible that if I changed aspect ratio on my menu, both would show. But I'm fine with it as is. As for the TV ratings box, they have to have that since it's an over-the-air service. I believe that just about every television and cable channel in the US uses TV ratings and (except for the premium channels) the ratings bugs that go with them. ^ All have TV PG? They must only have those "bad dog" Lassie episodes. cd Today PG means what G used to mean. G today means a show for toddlers.

If so, what about "TV-Y", which is used strictly for children's programming (along with "TV-Y7", for older kids)? The TV-Y ratings are just a redundant way of saying G and PG. The ratings are irrational and not based on the way normal people look at things. Most people try to ignore them and are only interested in content ratings. Even these are freaky. For example, drinking wine at dinner, or Sherlock Holmes smoking a pipe, are "D", and a pie in the face is "V". The ratings do not take into account blatancy and context and are thus psychopathic. In the 1970's, there were a few theaters that specialized in showing classic films. Eventually all classic Hayes Office films wound up with PG and even worse ratings on them. As a result of this, all classic films available from WB, Universal, Fox, Turner, etc, use out of copyright replacements that were used by their TV divisions. These copies are greatly inferior to the master copies. If it were not for the ratings, all classic films would look as crisp and spot free as any film made today. All the ratings have ever done is to wipe out anything that's basically decent. If you like classic films, you have been royally screwed. I think the master copies were stored in England, but I don't know where they are now. Also there are many films for which there is no TV copy, and they have become phantom films. One is the original film where Shirley Temple sang on "On the Good Ship Lollypop." This is not the reprise she did of it in a plane in a later film. So when you look at "It's a Wonderful Life" or anything else on TMC, you're looking at an inferior copy. This is true of most RKO films. A vault fire destroyed many master prints, and certain films exist today only in prints struck for C&C Television (subsidiary of the Irish soft drink maker Cantrell & Cochrane), which syndicated the RKO library in the '50s. The network will only be available in a 4:3 format, giving the black pilarboxes on the sides of the screen. I'm getting the station via WVIT-TV 30-2 of New Britain/Hartford (an NBC O & O station). As for the TV ratings box, they have to have that since it's an over-the-air service. Let's see how they handle it this weekend when they have to run the three hours of E/I programming! No broadcaster should be required to display boxes for TV content rating (there is no federal requirement for broadcasters to display content ratings, by the way). They can be very distracting and obstructive to TV consumers when displayed during the programs. Broadcasters would do a better job serving the public if they were to display the TV content ratings before their programs. Many TV consumers can also access the ratings in electronic TV programming guides and information boxes displayed by cable TV receivers and satellite TV receivers. Some TV sets are even capable of displaying TV content ratings after they are switched on. I believe many folks involved in creating theatrical movies and TV programs took advantage of content ratings for creative purposes and for purposes of targeting certain audiences.

Have there been any Hayes Office-era (or earlier) films that were Rated R (or earlier)? In fact, were there any classic films that received modern ratings retroactively? Most DVDs and videos of classic films I have seen often had "Not Rated" as its rating, as it was made before the ratings system began. A handful but not all classic films were resumbited to the MPAA for raitings for the revial circut - yes, films that had WIDE re-releases like the 1970's re-issue of SCARFACE which got a "PG" To have the ability of a larger number of classic films for the revival circut they would supliment with 16mm print - made from the same QUALITY negatives prepared for TV from the 35mm Negative elements - they just didn't take the same prints from the TV Syndication division and use them for theatrical revival-non theatrical (Colleges,etc). There's no such thing as a "out of copyright" print for a film not in copyright, nor as I said they'd take old prints from the tv divisions. They'd strike up additional prints in 16mm to suppliment the handful of 35mm prints. BOTH made the master elements. At no time did the MPAA force the studios to have their classic titles re-rated for the revival circut, only when a film was re-issued "wide". Additional examples was when MGM did wide kiddie-Matines of "Wizard of Oz". But the studios did keep 35mm prints in circulation in the 1970's - so wherever you got your information is incorrect. The condition of classic films TODAY is not becuase of what the studios "supposedly" did in the 1970's. Don't confuse "Master Copies" / "Master Elements" with a film that has been restored. Quote If you like classic films, you have been royally screwed. I think the master copies were stored in England, but I don't know where they are now. The studios still hold the bulk of their master negatives and elements - what do you think they've been using since the 1980's and now in the DVD era? While there may be a handful of odd missing films pre-WW2, Warners-MGM,Universal,20th Century Fox (Although there are large gaps pre-merger,1935),and Columbia-Sony still have their output. (Although Columbia is missing a handful of 35mm elements on Serials,Shorts and Cartoons) The pre-1948 Paramount Library is at Universal and there's a handful of films they didn't have rights to when MCA bought the libary, but they hold the safty negatives made in the late 1940's (OK, not the original negatives but just as good)

Paramount owns the Republic Libary,where there is a mix of 35mm and 16mm Elements. Warners owns RKO,and that's one library, although the bulk exists, it's mostly as 16mm elements (negatives/fine-grains) due to the formentioned issues. However, these are elements made from the original,are low generation. Quote Also there are many films for which there is no TV copy, and they have become phantom films. One is the original film where Shirley Temple sang on "On the Good Ship Lollypop." This is not the reprise she did of it in a plane in a later film. But some of these films do still exists at the studios, they were just not put in any tv package for whatever reason. Just look that the Warners Archive DVD releases - there are films from the 1930's that HAVE NEVER PLAYED ON TCM. [/quote] So when you look at "It's a Wonderful Life" or anything else on TMC, you're looking at an inferior copy. [/quote] Unlike the old TV prints from 16mm used in the 1950's-1980's. TCM has the cleanest transfers available from the best prints - mind you, some of these transfers, particularly the RKO films, were done in the 1980's when the studios switched from 16mm prints to Broadcast Masters. Sony has been supplying new transfers of the Columbia Titles,and 20th Century Fox's prints are either new transfers or the older masters used on FXM. Universal's titles were either recent or the transfers they did in the 1980's. But except for the RKO titles, these ARE from the 35mm master elements. Even with clean wet-gate and/or digital transfer, an old film - even from the most pristine elements is still an old film. There really are two groups of classic films. In the 50's and 60's the film studios got together all the best public domain copies and copyrighted them for their TV divisions. These are the ones that were shown on TV, so they didn't have to pay royalties. The actual master copies were never shown on TV except for a brief period in the mid to late 1970's. These films are in perfect condition. In an article, one of the old AMC announcers, said they could only use the TV copies because they were unrated. He said if they used the rated copies, they would look like HBO which he said would be ridiculous. An agreement was made with the rating system that if you used the non rated TV version, you could take them down a rating. However, this agreement was gotten rid of a few years ago. There were many newspaper articles about the replacement of all classic films with the inferior copies written in the 80's. The manager of the Senator Theatre in Baltimore was very concerned about it. There was also a book written about it called "The Ratings Racket". I remember seeing these films in the theatre copies in the 70's of TV. I talked to someone in the media and said how perfect they looked. He told me this is the first time the movie copyrights had been seen on TV.

You can't take a film in the public domain and "copyright them". ( "It's a Wonderful Life" being the rare example.) Once public domain, ALWAYS public domian. You colorize a film, it's a different work, and that version and only that version can be copyrighted, but for the type of public domain films and release in the 1950's and 1960's whoever had a print, or elements, could release them. Mostly by independent distributors who got ahold of whatever elements they could get to make a buck! Let's not confuse public domiain films with films issued to television by the studios. When the major studios, and their distributors, issued their back-catalog of films to television in the 1950's - NOTHING WAS EDITED. MCA/Paramount,Columbia/Universal,Warners,Metro,UA,RKO - all the films were issued to television - from quality master/safty elements to 16mm. Any editing were done by thre stations themselves. By 1958 ALL the studios were issuing films for television. The only studio that was known for editing their films were Republic, and that was so they could run in an hour slot - 51 minutes, and 9 minutes for commercials. No other major studio issued edited prints. However, Alied Artists actually ADDED to their shorter features to give them a "pre-title" teaster to better fit a 90 minute slot! The major studios saw TV as the enemy when they started to get into the television sales of the pre-1949 films - either directly or licenced out - it was with films still under copyright that they owned. They didn't issue any films that they produced that might have fallen into the public domain at that point. (and it was only a few between the 8 majors.) Thanks to the agrements with Screen Actors Guild, the studios did not have to pay royalties/residuals on any pre-1960 film sold to television. AMC was refering to LATTER FILMS of the MPAA raitings era films when refering to TV PRINTS, not the classics. When AMC ran the classic 1930's-1950's films from the Paramount/MCA package and the Columbia package in the 1980's-1990's, they were uncut THEATRICAL version, which were the same versions shown on TV since the 1950's! Even after the television raiting system came in, nothing was edited. Mundane Super Bowl broadcasting trivia Here's some mundane Super Bowl broadcasting trivia you might not have considered: NBC did five Big Games under the original peacock/Snake (1, 3, 5, 7, and 9), two under the red and blue trapezoidal N (11 and 13), three under the Proud N (15, 17, and 20), and the remainder under the current bird (23, 27, 28, 30, 32, 43, and 46). In essence, while NBC has done more Big Games under the current bird than any other of their logos (seven), the sum total of the Big Games that were done under the other logos (ten) is more than what was done under the current bird. ABC covered XIX (1985), XXII (1988), XXV (1991), XXIX (1995), XXXIV (2000),

XXXVII (2003) and XL (2006). Super Bowl I was covered by both CBS and NBC. Super Bowl XLVII will be on CBS this February. The New York Giants are the only team to have won a Super Bowl on all four US broadcast networks that televised the Super Bowl. XXI (CBS), XXV (ABC), XLII (Fox), XLVI (NBC). The Pittsburgh Steelers would have been the first but they lost to the Packers in Super Bowl XLV on Fox. That's a great trivia question! Now if only MyTV, ION & CW get the righ----never mind. cd Another thing: 2 of the 3 Big Games that NBC did under the Proud N (15 and 20) were from the Louisiana Superdome; the other (17, Miami/Washington) was from the Rose Bowl. ANOTHER thing: Both of DAL's SB wins with Clint Murchison cutting the checks (6 and 12) were on the Eye (and both in New Orleans). All three of the 'Boys Lombardis under Mr. Jones's ownership (27, 28, and 30) were won on the Peacock ("Nobody Beat the Cowboys!"), albeit in three different cities. Bum Bright, otoh, got nowhere near the SB. ixnay Both of CBS' most recent Super Bowls (XLI and XLIV) took place in Miami, and both featured Peyton Manning's Indianapolis Colts; the Colts split those Super Bowl games, with Indy beating Chicago in XLI, and New Orleans beating Indy in XLIV.

The 5 Big Game wins of San Francisco were in a somewhat alternating fashion of network coverage ("somewhat alternating" because while they did make an alternating pattern of the networks, they weren't all consecutive; 16 was on CBS, 19 was on ABC, 23 was on NBC, 24 was again on CBS, and 29 was again on ABC). Retro TV Election Night Coverage A companion to my earlier post on the Classic Radio board:

NBC, oddly enough, did not go with wall-to-wall Presidential election-night coverage on TV until 1960, when it did so starting at 7:30 P.M. EST (and in later years, starting at 7 EST). In 1948 and 1952, NBC-TV coverage did not start until 9 EST (so Milton Berle could be seen), and in 1956, the coverage didn't start until 8:30 EST. On the other hand, back then, few results may have been in that soon. ...one tradition that was kinda fun was when NBC's Tom Pettit would make reports while at the bar at Serb Hall in Milwaukee. That was at least from 1964 to 1980. I suspect Rachel Maddow would like to revive that little tradition (if in fact she even knows about it) ...

Um...what about CBS (their first Presidential election night was in 1952 (Walter Cronkite would anchor every one until 1980) and their use of the UNIVAC computer) ABC had a very skeletal news department back then; 1956 or 1960 may have been their first election.

Just as a sidebar, the first presidential election coverage that was broadcast entirely in color on all three networks was in 1968. The first inauguration to be shown entirely in color was LBJ's in 1965, but only on NBC. NBC also showed the inaugural parade portion of JFK's inaugural in color back in 1961. Unfortunately, the videtape of that 1961 broadcast was reused almost immediately, according to Reuven Frank. I was a little tyke then, but I thought the opening of NBC's 1964 Election Night coverage (which I believe I saw) had the animated peacock, and a voice-over saying that "Those portions of this NBC News Special Report originating from our New York Election Central and the Johnson and Goldwater Headquarters are in Living Color", which would mean that the studio segments and the remotes from the Johnson and Goldwater headquarters would have been in color, with other remote segments in black-and-white. I do know that all three networks originated the studio portions (and some remote segments) of their 1966 midterm election coverage in color; however, I think NBC also did much of their 1964 Election Night in color. Correct me if I'm wrong.

As for their election titles:

CBS started using "Campaign" in 1964 for every one except 1972. Also in '72, NBC began using "Decision" for their elections; the Henry Mancini theme would follow from 1976-92. ABC called theirs "The (insert year) Vote" from 1978-2002, followed by "Vote 2004" (2004), "Vote '08" (2008), and "Your Voice, Your Vote" (2012, which sounded stupid). The electoral map came into play in 1976, with Republicans blue and Democrats red...well, at least according to NBC. But starting in 1980 and ABC's coverage, it would be the other way around (yellow for Independent candidate John Anderson) and by 1984, the other networks would follow suit. ABC's 1980 election I believe was also the first to display their totals on LED, which were very, very new at the time. Not as stupid as the Hearst stations' "Commitment [year]" which they've been using for several years. Commitment of what?!? ixnay think they were meaning to make our commitment to vote. Agreed. It still sounds corny to me though. But I admit "Choose Your Windbag" would've been far worse. I never liked "The [Year] Vote" too much, either. OTOH ABC in 1976 used "Political Spirit of '76" in the Bicen year, which I liked. That same year, NBC's "Decision '76" logo was a play on the Bennington flag. Do a Wiki. ixnay ABC called theirs "The (insert year) Vote" from 1978-2002,... In 2000, the onscreen and on-set title was actually "ABC 2000 The Vote." However, the announcer still referred to it as "The 2000 Vote." NBC Saturday Mornings in Boston. According to Wikipedia, WBZ which was the NBC affiliate in Boston stopped airing NBC's Saturday Morning lineup in 1990, so I need to know what station in Boston aired NBC's Saturday Morning lineup after WBZ no longer aired it. I'm pretty sure that WBZ kept airing Saved By The Bell but not sure about the cartoons.

If WBZ-TV stopped broadcasting NBC's Saturday morning programs in 1990, why does the Boston, Massachusetts edition of TV Guide for the week of (Saturday) February 23rd, 1991 include listings for NBC's Saturday morning programs next to WBZ-TV's channel number (4)? Does anyone have any Saturday morning TV listings for TV stations in Boston from 1990 or remember WBZ-TV's treatment of NBC's Saturday morning programming at the time? (note: Wikipedia can be a good starting point for pursuing information, just don't make it your final stop in your pursuit) Looking at the schedule that Mario posted, WBZ carried the NBC Saturday morning lineup in-tact, except bumping Saved by the Bell to 1pm instead of keeping it at its 11am (ET) slot with the rest of the network. From other Boston-area schedules I've read over time during or around this timeframe (mid-80s to 90s), it seemed like channels 27 and 68 usually would carry whatever network shows the Big Three (Chs. 4, 5, and 7) didn't clear. The 1990-91 TV season was to the second-to-last season that NBC aired animated shows on Saturday mornings until 2002, when Discovery Kids on NBC started up. Saturday Today launched in fall 1992, and the TNBC lineup followed it in most markets, although in some markets, local news aired in-between. I was hoping what Wikipedia said was true, because I want the Super Mario cartoons to air on WLVI, not on WBZ knowing for a fact that NBC had The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3 and Super Mario World alongside Captain N: The Game Master. Does anybody know what stations in the Boston market aired the Super Mario cartoons such as The Super Mario Bros. Super Show. and Captain N: and the Video Gamemasters which had the Mario cartoons as well in syndication in the fall 1992 TV season.

WBZ TV in the 80's aired nearly the entire NBC Saturday cartoon lineup. They may have preempted an hour here and there but nothing substantial. In the early 90's they preempted maybe a couple hours at most. What happened was that WBZ TV aired no cartoons from August of 1992 on because NBC dropped them from thair lineup, WBZ TV still ran most of the NBC lineup. After NBC dropped the cartoons, WBZ TV may have preempted a portion of Saturday Today for local news and also maybe an hour of the teen sitcoms NBC ran. At that point Channel 62 ran whatever WBZ TV did not. WBZ TV added more local news Saturday mornings in 1993. In 1995, when WBZ TV became a CBS affiliate - eventually to be an O & O they continued to run local news till 10 AM and ran only the 10 AM to 1 PM cartoons from CBS in pattern. They ran the other 2 hours Sunday mornings 7-9 AM so still they ran CBS' entire lineup.

Stations that aired Super Mario Cartoons. I would like a complete list of stations that have aired either the Super Mario Bros. Super Show or Captain N and the Video Game Masters, according to the TV listings threads in this forum or based on what you know. I would really appricate it. Seattle KTZZ had Captain N in the early 1990s, and KSTW IIRC had the Super Mario Bros. Super Show. -crainbebo WGBS-TV in Philadelphia aired The Super Mario Bros. Super Show! from 1989 to 1991 and Captain N from 1992 to 1993. In the 1989-1990 season it aired at 4:00PM every day right before Ninja Turtles at 4:30PM (me and my sister used to watch this hour every day) and in the 1990-1991 season it would air around 7:30AM and different times in the afternoon. Captain N also aired on WGBS-TV in the 1992-1993 season once again usually at 4:00PM before Ninja Turtles (which always aired during its syndication run on WGBS-TV at 4:30PM every day).

In Spokane, it aired at 6 am on CBS affiliate KREM. It was the lead-in to the early morning local news!

(all times reflect the Central time zone) According to my copies of TV listings published by the Mobile Press-Register, WJTCTV in the Mobile, Alabama-Pensacola, Florida TV market used to broadcast "The Super Mario Bros. Super Show" during its original run in broadcast syndication. According to the listings, the station was set to broadcast the program at 4:00 p.m. every Monday through Thursday by September 1989 before it was rescheduled for 4:30 p.m. by January 1990. By then, the station was set to broadcast the program on Fridays as well (in September 1989, the station was set to broadcast "Yogi Bear" at 4:00 p.m. and "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" at 4:30 p.m. on Friday only, according to the TV listings. By January 1990, the station was set to broadcast "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" at 4:00 p.m. every Monday through Friday and "Yogi Bear" at 2:30 p.m. every Monday through Friday). Football Games On Early TV On Thanksgiving What football games do you remember being telecast in the early days of TV in your

area? I can recall the Lions-Packers NFL game being on here in the mid-1950's although, of course, that was a network telecast that was seen elsewhere as well. I didn't see it, but did research that the University of Cincinnati -vs- Miami of Ohio football game played on Thanksgiving, 1949 was carried on all three Cincinnati TV outlets (then Channels, 4, 7 and 11) that afternoon. I'm not sure how many television sets were in use here then. The three stations had all signed on for the first time earlier that year What do you remember from your area from Thanksgivings of the early TV years? The first television broadcast in Seattle over KRSC-TV (which would become KING eight months later) was a live high school football matchup on Thanksgiving Day, 1948. It had rained prior to game time and then the sun came out, causing a horrible glare off the wet field, so the visuals were pretty poor. Here in Louisville, WAVE-TV (primary NBC, secondary DuMont) signed on Channel 5 on November 24, 1948 with an introductory filmed program. The next day, WAVE presented the latest installment of what is now the oldest uninterrupted (100+ years) high school football rivalry in the US, Louisville Male High versus Louisville duPont Manual High. I believe kinescopes still exist of some of this 1948 game, which used to be on Thanksgiving Day yearly until the high school football system in Kentucky was realigned and expanded. Despite the changes, Male-Manual is still an annual event. I got a look at the photos from that game, and I was awed by the size and weight of the remote gear they had in 1948, compared to what we use today...heck, 10 years ago the stuff was heavier, bulkier and consumed more power than today (Techs: I'm an EVS and videotape operator). By the way, WAVE (TV) is still going strong as an NBC affiliate on DT Channel 47...it moved from Channel 5 to Channel 3 in the 1953 re-alignment and stayed on Channel 3 until the digital transition. Not exactly the early days of TV (roughly pre-1952 or '53), but a typical Thanksgiving Day lineup from my childhood. CarolinaTennessee edition of TV Guide, November 22, 1962: Packers-Lions 12 N CBS Texas A&M-Texas approx. 2:45 PM CBS (New York) Titans-Broncos 3 PM ABC

When I was a kid, Packers-Lions and A&M-Texas were sure to be telecast on Thanksgiving Day; I think it was in '66 that the Cowboys began playing their annual Turkey Day game (Cleveland, IIRC, was their first opponent, and the game aired on CBS at 6 PM ET). For my part, no game, college or pro, will ever touch the college game played Thanksgving Day, November 25, 1971: Oklahoma-Nebraska. I do have a question: when did Thanksgiving Day become almost all-NFL and the day after become almost all-NCAA? Here in Boston, Thanksgiving Day 1948 (November 25th, 1948) was the first after the arrival of commercial television in the "Hub". No pro football games were televised in Boston that day. I think the only NFL game that day was in Detroit, which may have been televised in the Midwest. Since there were not yet TV network lines between the Midwest and East Coast (two months later, the Midwest and East were linked, in time for Inauguration Day), that game could not have been televised on the East Coast. According to that day's Boston Globe, there were two football games on TV: A highschool game between Lynn Classical and Lynn English at 10 A.M. on WNAC-7; and a college football game between Penn and Cornell at Philadelphia on WBZ-4 at 1:15 P.M. (likely via NBC) The next year (1949), Bostonians (again, according to Boston Globe listings) finally got a televised NFL game on Thanksgiving when the Detroit Lions' game (oddly enough, they hosted the Chicago Bears and not the Green Bay Packers that year) aired on WNAC, with a 11:05 A.M. EST kick-off (and 10:55 A.M. EST broadcast time; this game was likely from DuMont). WBZ (again through NBC) had another college game that day, again featuring Cornell, this time hosting Penn State at 1:15 P.M. Unless there was a microwave link-up (maybe temporary?) to either Ithaca or State College, I suspect the game was also played in Philadelphia. For my part, no game, college or pro, will ever touch the college game played Thanksgving Day, November 25, 1971: Oklahoma-Nebraska. I do have a question: when did Thanksgiving Day become almost all-NFL and the day after become almost all-NCAA? Agreed on the Oklahoma-Nebraska game. That was just draining - can you believe ABC showed another game later that day?

I don't have a definitive answer to the question of when the changes you mentioned happened. I THINK that 1976 was the last time ABC showed a Thanksgiving game on an annual basis; then there were none nationally until ESPN brought back the A&M-Texas game in the 80s. The A&M-Texas game was on Thanksgiving through 1973 and in 1976, but not again until 1981. OU-NU's last Thanksgiving game was in 1972. As for Fridays, I think this had to do at least in part with the NCAA television contact with ABC; IIRC, teams were limited to a certain number of appearances per season, but games played on days other than Saturday were differently toward that total. OU-NU shifted their game from Thanksgiving to Friday in 1973 at least through 1977 (even when OU was on probation and the game wasn't televised). A&M and Texas also played at least a couple of times on Friday in the 70s. A side note- the number of pro games on Thanksgiving has also declined somewhat from its peak; after CBS added the Dallas game to the traditional Detroit game, making an NFL doubleheader, NBC followed suit with an AFL doubleheader in that league's final seasons, making a total of four pro games, in addition to the college games. Quote WBZ (again through NBC) had another college game that day, again featuring Cornell, this time hosting Penn State at 1:15 P.M. Unless there was a microwave link-up (maybe temporary?) to either Ithaca or State College, I suspect the game was also played in Philadelphia. Joseph, I checked this out on the College Football Data Warehouse; according to them, it was actually Penn which Cornell played in 1949, and you're correct that it was played in Philadelphia. The primetime game on November 25, 1971 was just as draining for me: Georgia-Georgia Tech, because I had already decided I wanted to attend UGA. With time running out, Georgia quarterback Andy Johnson moved the ball some 90 yards to pull off the win over Tech. The SEC also had another reason to celebrate that night: Auburn QB Pat Sullivan won the Heisman, although I will maintain until I'm in my grave that Ed Marinaro would have won it if he had gone to a school other than Cornell, not one of your big college football powerhouses. I remember that game being on, but I'll be darned if I can remember anything about it. Must have been the tryptophan... But I do remember that Heisman presentation, and I agree with you that Marinaro should have gotten it. It was only the year before that Dartmouth won the Lambert Trophy as the best football team in the East - I kind of miss those days.

Packers-Lions 12 N CBS Texas A&M-Texas approx. 2:45 PM CBS (New York) Titans-Broncos 3 PM ABC

Now that you mention it, I do remember a Thanksgiving Day game from Denver going WAAAAAY back in my childhood. In the film Rudy his family is shown gathered around the television watching Notre Dame play on Thanksgiving Day. Which made me wonder.....has Notre Dame ever played on Thanksgiving? I don't seem to remember that. The one time I can remember Notre Dame playing on Thanksgiving was in 1973, when they played Air Force at South Bend. (Won, 48-15.) As I recall, ND moved this game to Thanksgiving at the request of ABC. Not positive, but I think that's the one and only time for them.

Call Letters Pronounced Like a Word (but not a word) Thinking about stations whose calls do not spell an actual English word, but are frequently spoken as a pseudo-word as part of on-air branding/sloganeering. An example from my home market is WESH Daytona Beach-Orlando, which has done this for as long as I can remember. ("Wesh" is, obviously, not an actual word.) I can also think of a non-English example, though still in the U.S. (territories). WAPA San Juan has done this for much of its history. There is no word "wapa" in Spanish; indeed, "W" is not used in any native Spanish words at all, only in loan words borrowed from other languages. However, the word "guapa" (meaning "good-looking") does sound very similar, especially when spoken rapidly. Unknown whether this is just a coincidence, or was consciously intended as a subtle pun-ny characterization. (I.e., to identify verbally as "wapa televisión" is to imply that they are "good-looking television.") Other examples? Assuming we can use some radio calls here as well.... WOWO in Ft Wayne, IN would have to be one of the better known ones - often pronounced as "whoa-whoa." I can recall when KWAM in West Memphis, AR played country music back in the 60's and it was often called K-"Wham" by the DJ's.

The board is Classic TV....if we included radio stations, it would sure be a long list! I'll throw one in....similar to "Wapa," WLTV 23 was known as WAJA-TV 1967-71. They had a Spanish block in the evenings, and the announcer would proudly announce the WAJA call letters in Spanish, and then say "Wah-hah! Canal Veintitres...." I think I recall the English announcers occasionally calling it "wah-juh" on the air, but it was never really adopted. cd KOMO 4 Seattle (although for many years it was pronounced Kay OH Em OH). KONG 16 Seattle (Sister station to KING 5) KIRO 7 Seattle (although for many years it was pronounced Kay Eye Arr OH).

KENS (pronounced Ken's) in San Antonio. Houston's KTRK rather famously had the kiddie TV host "Kitirik" ("kittie-rik"), a slinky young woman dressed up in a catsuit. I don't think the station was ever known by that name otherwise, though. KRON in San Francisco is often pronounced "Chron," which is only fitting considering the calls came from the original owner, the San Francisco CHRON-icle. Hasn't KATU in Portland, Oregon gone by "Kay-Two" in the past? KREM in Spokane definitely pronounces the calls as a word. So, I believe, does KOLO in Reno.

KOMO 4 Seattle (although for many years it was pronounced Kay OH Em OH). I don't know why, but when I was a kid I pronounced it as K-O-Whammo. KRON in San Francisco is often pronounced "Chron," which is only fitting considering the calls came from the original owner, the San Francisco CHRON-icle. I thought I heard someone also calling the station as "K-Ron". Also to include: KOLR ch.10 in Springfield, MO, which was known for many years as "Color 10", even into the digital age. The station adopted the calls in 1970 after the station began showing local programs in color. As Well As KULR 8 In Billings, MT

WAGA was pronounced "Wagga" for years; it even had a Scotch terrier named Waga as its mascot. WQXI, Atlanta's big top-40 radio station in the '60s and '70s (now sportstalk) and the call letters of Ch. 11 before it became WXIA, was known as "Quixie in Dixie." Sioux Falls' KELO and Rapid City's KOTA both fall into this category. Furthermore, KELO and its satellite stations refer to their service area (pretty much the entire state of South Dakota) as "Keloland", while KOTA and its satellite stations use "KOTA Territory" for their branding. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KELO-TV http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KOTA-TV I wonder if during promos, that WISH-TV says Wish-TV in Indianapolis. I didn't see this one, but I remember during an original network broadcast of Punky Brewster, that one of the pictures shown from a viewer was from KING-TV in Seattle, & Soleil Moon Frye said King-TV. I'm sure they (KING-TV) say the same thing during their promos. "Wish" and "King" (and "Koin" and "Kare") are actual words, though. I can't think of any examples here in Connecticut. Up north, you have WNNE-TV (NBC) channel 31 of White River Junction, VT, which is in the Burlington (VT)/Plattsburgh (NY) DMA. I've never heard them say "Winnie" or anything like that. In fact, the N-N-E part of the letters simply meant "Northern New England." Also, WBIN-TV (IND) channel 50 of Derry, NH was once WNDS-TV. I seem to remember them once saying "The Winds Of New England" or something like it.

WANE-TV in Fort Wayne (self-explanatory). Also, there's a station in Wichita, Kansas (I think) called KAKE...Has it ever been referred to as "Cake"?

I forgot to include it earlier; indeed, it and its satellite stations now use the term "Kakeland" to describe their service area. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KAKE

I wonder if during promos, that WISH-TV says Wish-TV in Indianapolis. I didn't see this one, but I remember during an original network broadcast of Punky Brewster, that one of the pictures shown from a viewer was from KING-TV in Seattle, & Soleil Moon Frye said King-TV. I'm sure they (KING-TV) say the same thing during their promos. "Wish" and "King" (and "Koin" and "Kare") are actual words, though. Personally, I would count KOIN and KARE (and the aforementioned KAKE), as the calls themselves aren't words. Along those lines, there may be some examples in Albuquerque/Santa Fe: I think that both KOAT and KASA have pronounced their calls-although I don't think that KOB and KRQE have.

Has KOTA 3 been mentioned yet? Also, was KARD 14 in El Dorado, AR area ever pronounced as "Kard"-like Card? -crainbebo

I don't know, but "KARD" was once the home of ch 3 in Wichita. There is a video online of a rare 1950s color videotape NBC special opening, beginning with the KARD-TV ID (as K-A-R-D), with some "face cards" (like in a deck of cards) on screen. cd

Hasn't KATU in Portland, Oregon gone by "Kay-Two" in the past? I forgot to mention it earlier, but KATU still does go by "K-2" (as does the unrelated KTWO in Casper). Of course, that may open up the Pandora's Box for (at least) KFVE (which is still "K-5"), KNIN (which apparently was, at one time, "K-9"), and KAIT (which appears to have been "K-8" at some point). (I'm less sure about KFOR being referred to as "K-4".) (Updated because KTEN [which appears to go by "K-10"] slipped my mind.) KFOR-TV in Oklahoma City, did often refer to itself as "K-Four" after it adopted the callsign in 1990, though it has fallen out of use within the last five years. I'm surprised though, that its rival KOCO never chose to prounounce its calls since it sounds like "cocoa". There's also KEYE ("K-Eye") in Austin. Three radio examples also come from OKC, with KATT-FM having long called itself the "Katt", KYIS-FM referring to itself as "KISS FM" and KOMA (both the present-day FM and former AM stations) pronouncing

its calls as "Coma". Yes, these three pronounce real words, but the callsigns obviously aren't correct spellings of them.

WJET/24 in Erie, PA has been calling itself "Jet TV" or "Jet ABC24" over the past 10-15 years. Another station in Erie, WSEE/35, has a word in its call letters but I've never heard the station referred to that way.

Has KOTA 3 been mentioned yet? Also, was KARD 14 in El Dorado, AR area ever pronounced as "Kard"-like Card? -crainbebo I don't know, but "KARD" was once the home of ch 3 in Wichita. There is a video online of a rare 1950s color videotape NBC special opening, beginning with the KARD-TV ID (as K-A-R-D), with some "face cards" (like in a deck of cards) on screen. cd Here it the opening sequence for the video, which was a Fred Astaire special: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oivx0aJJmC8 The opening KARD shot looks recerated to me instead of being from the original video.

Assuming we can use some radio calls here as well.... I can recall when KWAM in West Memphis, AR played country music back in the 60's and it was often called K-"Wham" by the DJ's. KWAM is a news/talk station now, but they still refer to themselves as K-Wham. WDXI in Jackson, TN still calls themselves Dixie 1310.

WDXI in Jackson, TN still calls themselves Dixie 1310.WDXI, and other stations having the WDX_ call letters in middle and west Tennessee and northern Mississippi, were once part of the Dixie Network of stations. WENK in Union City was also once part of the Dixie Network, despite not having the WDX_ call sign. Keeping it relevant to this thread, WENK never really went with the phonetic pronunciation of their call letters ("wink") while I was growing up there, only reverting to being "wink" in more recent years. Not sure if they still do that or not.

KYUS-TV (Channel 3, Miles City, Montana), "Cay-use" was the nick-name for the station. The smallest NBC affiliate in the nation back in the 70's. It had one minimum service color camera, one videotape machine and a very cranky VHF transmitter. I actually saw a videotape of this station from e-skip (thanks to Tom Bryant). It didn't have a Time Base Corrector and you could see that during that e-skip opening. Talk about low budget..........

The Bay Area used to have independent KEMO ("chemo") TV 20, which always made me think about chemotherapy. Come to think of it, the station is now KOFY ("coffee") TV 20. Local radio stations have included KLOK ("clock") and there was once a KRAK ("Crack"), though IIRC, it was before the crack (rock cocaine) epidemic of the 80s made the word unpalatable.

Here are some additional examples... Columbia, S.C.'s WACH apparently still pronounces the calls as "Watch". Since Erie's WSEE was mentioned, I might as well mention Fresno's KSEE--which does appear to go by "K-See". Going back to Austin, there's also KVUE--which may go by "K-View". Another "KView" may be KVEW, the Tri-Cities semi-satellite of Yakima's KAPP. Staying within the Tri-Cities, KEPR (KIMA's semi-satellite) may be pronounced as "Keeper". (That said, I don't know if either KAPP or KIMA themselves pronounce their calls. The same goes for KIMA/KEPR's other semi-satellite, KLEW in Lewiston, Idaho.) Going back to San Antonio, KSAT does appear to go by "K-Sat". Finally, even though the branding hasn't been used for a really long time, Chicago's WPWR did go by "Power". (The station is co-owned with WFLD--although I don't think that "Field [Communications]", which is what the "FLD" stands for, was ever part of the on-air branding.) (Yes, I am going from Wikipedia in many of these cases. Since I didn't see any mention about it, does anyone know if Bakersfield has a station that would qualify? I'm thinking that KERO, KGET, and/or KBAK may have pronounced their calls at some point.)

^ I remember when the calls of WACH were available.....I thought, wow what an opportunity! WAtCH-TV!

(BTW can a station have a -TV suffix despite no existing AM or FM with the call? Now that I ask, can an FM station have "-FM" in the calls of no existing AM or TV with the call?) cd

Finally, even though the branding hasn't been used for a really long time, Chicago's WPWR did go by "Power". (The station is co-owned with WFLD--although I don't think that "Field [Communications]", which is what the "FLD" stands for, was ever part of the on-air branding.) Actually, WPWR branded as "Power 50" during the transition from UPN to MyNetworkTV affiliation in 2006.

Here it the opening sequence for the video, which was a Fred Astaire special: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oivx0aJJmC8 The opening KARD shot looks recerated to me instead of being from the original video. It must be a recreation. Listen to the audio on the Astaire special, it's 15 kHz. If it was an actual aircheck recorded in Wichita, the network audio would have been 5 kHz. Not to mention the "clean" transition from local station to network (no "roll").

^ I remember when the calls of WACH were available.....I thought, wow what an opportunity! WAtCH-TV! (BTW can a station have a -TV suffix despite no existing AM or FM with the call? Now that I ask, can an FM station have "-FM" in the calls of no existing AM or TV with the call?) cd That was WACH 57 Columbia, SC. They called it 'Watch TV-The One to Watch!". Fox affiliate. -crainbebo

Another "K-View" may be KVEW, the Tri-Cities semi-satellite of Yakima's KAPP. Staying within the Tri-Cities, KEPR (KIMA's semi-satellite) may be pronounced as "Keeper". (That said, I don't know if either KAPP or KIMA themselves pronounce their

calls. The same goes for KIMA/KEPR's other semi-satellite, KLEW in Lewiston, Idaho.)KIMA and KEPR brand as "K-I-M-A Keeper" (in years past KIMA was pronounced Keye-muh, not Kee-muh). KAPP/KVEW do both as words -- "Kapp KView." The NBC stations in Yakima and the Tri-Cities, KNDO and KNDU, were the "Can-Do" stations when they first began. If I had to guess, I'd bet Washington and Oregon have the greatest number of stations that identify themselves by phonetic call letters. I'm pretty sure Washington has the most radio stations still using three-letter calls.

Come to think of it, when WSEE first had a website circa 1998, it was seecbs.com, and they pronounced it as "See CBS.com". I forgot about that until now.

(BTW can a station have a -TV suffix despite no existing AM or FM with the call? Now that I ask, can an FM station have "-FM" in the calls of no existing AM or TV with the call?) Yes. I don't believe there has ever been a KNXV radio station since 1979, but the Phoenix ABC affiliate is KNXV-TV. More often, however, I think you would see stations with a -TV suffix and no common-call radio stations when a TV station had the same calls as a radio station, then the radio station changes its calls. (Ex. KPHO-TV Phoenix)

The Bay Area used to have independent KEMO ("chemo") TV 20, which always made me think about chemotherapy. Come to think of it, the station is now KOFY ("coffee") TV 20. Local radio stations have included KLOK ("clock") and there was once a KRAK ("Crack"), though IIRC, it was before the crack (rock cocaine) epidemic of the 80s made the word unpalatable. KRAK was a country station in Sacramento for years. Now it all-sports KHTK, which, since they are the Sacramento Kings' flagship, turns into "Home of The Kings."

And Yuma has KBLU...pronounced K-BLUE..originally TV and radio, now just used on the news-talk station. The TV station (Ch 13) in the 70s changed calls to KYEL and later to KSWT

Tried to edit my earlier post because it had too many radio only stations, but was too late...sorry Back in Iowa, it's mighty hard not to refer to KIOA Des Moines as K - Ioway. In the mid 60s some airchecks feature the slogan "Kioway in Ioway" but that only lasted a couple of years. That's a stretch to include them as a radio station, but they did at least apply for a TV license back in the early 50s. That other more famous Des Moines station WHO-TV doesn't qualify here because it IS a word. But TV never referred to themselves as "who" TV, always W-H-O TV. In New Mexico, I've always marveled at Albuquerque's public TV station KNME. Kay-"enemy" conjures up a three-toe call that never will be, WTF! Those calls should have been shot down by their management before they were ever submitted back in 1958, but they must have needed an N-M-A (en-em-ay or is that uh) for they must have been full of... Some suggested on-air slogans: "Your Enemy of the State...of New Mexico, this is K-N-M-E." Or, "K-N-M-E, your Enemy of Education!" At least these days they refer to themselves as New Mexico PBS.

How many channels did cable TV have in the 1970s? In Oak Ridge, Tennessee (an early town to have cable TV due to the valley blocking nearby Knoxville reception) we had 12 channels in the 1970's. We had Oak Ridge Cablevision (now Comcast). Which just rolled out XFinity TV.

My grandparents in Lawrenceburg, Indiana, (a suburb of Cincinnati) had this lineup, from what I can remember, from about 1974 until their deaths in the late 1970s. I have never known of anyone either in Cincinnati or in Lawrenceburg that had a similar setup at the time. (Oh, how I loved watching TV at my grandparents' house!) 2 Dayton’s Channel 2, WDTN, NBC 3 Louisville’s Channel 3, WAVE, NBC 4 Indianapolis’s Channel 4, WTTV, then an independent station (it’s now CW) 5 Cincinnati’s Channel 5, WLWT, NBC 6 Cincinnati’s Channel 19, WXIX, then an independent station (it’s now Fox) 7 Dayton’s Channel 7, WHIO, CBS 8 Cincinnati’s Channel 48, WCET, PBS 9 Cincinnati’s Channel 9, WCPO, CBS 10 Oxford’s Channel 14, WPTO, PBS 11 Dayton’s Channel 16, WOET (now WPTD), PBS 12 Cincinnati’s Channel 12, WKRC, ABC 13 Dayton’s Channel 22, WKEF, ABC

I forgot to mention one clever way in which 1970s-/early 1980s-era cable systems managed additional capacity if they had enough programming available to exceed the typical 35-channel bandwidth at the time. (The amplifiers that were used along cable lines couldn't cleanly pass frequencies above 400 MHz or so back then.) Some systems, primarily in fairly urban areas, actually built two sets of cable lines and put two drops into each home, with an A/B switch at each set allowing customers to switch from the "A" cable to the "B" cable. In theory, that could have allowed up to 70 channels; in practice, there wasn't enough programming to fill all that space yet. I wonder when the last two-cable system went away? I think Cablevision in the city of Boston still had A and B trunks as late as 1991 or so... Comcast in the Royal Oak (MI) South headend still had A and B cable until maybe sometime in 2011. (I downloaded a letter from Comcast noting the change from A/B to single cable about when the proposed changes were announced in 2010.) And in those areas that had A/B cable trunks (none that I was aware of in central and western Illinois), did some of those systems designate the "A" trunk as "basic cable" with local channels (and some out-of-market channels), shopping, C-SPAN, superstations, Weather Channel, maybe CNN and ESPN in their early days; and "B" for premium channels/expanded basic? Cable TV of the 1970s coincides with my infancy, so I don't have any memories of the service before 1982 or so. However, I unearthed an old brochure from my parents' files a while back. (It was good I noticed it, because the document was destined for the trash bin!) The brochure is from Total TV, a one-time cable operator in Beaver Dam, Wis. (a small town in-between Milwaukee and Madison). I believe the brochure is from 1978. At the time, Total TV appeared to offer two tiers of service -- a standard 12-channel one and an extended option with 17 channels. According to the brochure, here's what was offered in the standard package: 2 - WBAY, Channel 2, CBS, Green Bay 3 - WISC, Channel 3, CBS, Madison 4 - WTMJ, Channel 4, NBC, Milwaukee 5 - WFRV, Channel 5, NBC, Green Bay 6 - WITI, Channel 6, CBS, Milwaukee 7 - WTCG, Channel 17, IND, Atlanta -- about a year before the change in calls to WTBS 8 - WVTV, Channel 18, IND, Milwaukee 9 - WKOW, Channel 27, ABC, Madison 10 - WMTV, Channel 15, NBC, Madison 11 - WLUK, Channel 11, ABC, Green Bay

12 - WISN, Channel 12, ABC, Milwaukee 13 - CATV (presumably some type of local origination channel) The extended package also offered the following: 7A - Beaver Dam Weather 8B - WPNE, Channel 38, PBS, Green Bay 9C - Reserved for future use 10D - WMVS, Channel 10, PBS, Milwaukee 11E - WHA, Channel 21, PBS, Madison 12F - Christian Broadcasting Network (CBN) -- today's ABC Family 13G - Special Features Channel (described as "various programs from several area TV stations on an occasional basis") WTCG and CBN are touted as being brought in "via satellite." At the time, Total TV also offered a 21-channel FM service from an assortment of surrounding radio stations. The marketing materials from this era are fascinating. The front of the brochure has a new, shiny satellite receiver and the inside has a large, unsightly antenna with the headline, "Goodbye, Ugly." Clearly, this was cable TV's selling point in the early days. I find the pricing information equally interesting. Total TV charged a $25 fee for installing cable on the first TV set in a home and tacked on $5 for each additional TV. A monthly $7.50 fee was assessed for the full 17-channel service, but there was no mention in the brochure of what the 12-channel tier cost. The FM outlet was an added fee with $5 for installation and a monthly service fee of $1.50. According to the brochure, here's what was offered in the standard package: 2 - WBAY, Channel 2, CBS, Green Bay 3 - WISC, Channel 3, CBS, Madison 4 - WTMJ, Channel 4, NBC, Milwaukee 5 - WFRV, Channel 5, NBC, Green Bay 6 - WITI, Channel 6, CBS, Milwaukee 7 - WTCG, Channel 17, IND, Atlanta -- about a year before the change in calls to WTBS 8 - WVTV, Channel 18, IND, Milwaukee 9 - WKOW, Channel 27, ABC, Madison 10 - WMTV, Channel 15, NBC, Madison 11 - WLUK, Channel 11, ABC, Green Bay 12 - WISN, Channel 12, ABC, Milwaukee 13 - CATV (presumably some type of local origination channel) The extended package also offered the following:

7A - Beaver Dam Weather 8B - WPNE, Channel 38, PBS, Green Bay 9C - Reserved for future use 10D - WMVS, Channel 10, PBS, Milwaukee 11E - WHA, Channel 21, PBS, Madison 12F - Christian Broadcasting Network (CBN) -- today's ABC Family 13G - Special Features Channel (described as "various programs from several area TV stations on an occasional basis") Did the "Extended package" require an A-B switch? And why were the PBS stations relegated to that package? Was "channel 9C" which was "reserved for future use" eventually filled by WGN? And was the overnight service from WBBM-2 Chicago among those program offerings available on Ch. 13G, the Special Features Channel? Did that channel also pick up any network shows (especially daytime game shows) preempted by the Milwaukee or Green Bay affiliates (most likely if they were cleared by the Wausau or perhaps Rockford affiliates)? I'm a bit surprised that the system carried both WHA and WPNE in the first place-especially since Milwaukee's secondary PBS station (WMVT) wasn't included. At the time, WHA probably wasn't carrying the entire Wisconsin Public Television network lineup--although it should've been very, very close. There probably would've been less overlap if WMVT had been carried instead. Also, did Total TV's service area include parts of Green Lake and/or Fond du Lac counties? That would help explain why all of the Green Bay stations were included. In terms of the Special Features Channel, my hunch is that there wouldn't have been any daytime shows that a network's Milwaukee, Green Bay, and Madison affiliates all didn't carry--not including the fact that WVTV itself did carry some preempted daytime shows. I recall some cable systems would "build" thier own channels by brining in different independant station on a shared basis,sometimes an hour from this one,a movie from another,etc - in the pre syndex days. I know this doesn't exactly relate to the original question (only it was before my time), but I recall the Rockford (IL) Cablevision having about a 25-channel lineup prior to fall 1987, when they expanded and added several additional channels. I remember it being a big deal locally, especially in the local daily paper, the Register-Star, as they dedicated two-full pages to the new additions.

Among the new offerings, if I recall correctly, included BET, Univision (national feed), AMC, Bravo, and The Movie Channel. Just prior, the channel lineup was pretty basic-the four local stations (WREX 13 [ABC, now NBC; on Ch. 3], WTVO 17 [NBC, now ABC; on 4], WIFR 23 [CBS; on 5], and WQRF 39 [indie, now Fox; on 6]), WGN (on its customary Channel 9 position), WTTW 11 (PBS Chicago; on 11), WHA (PBS Madison; on 2), plus TBS, ESPN, HBO, Disney, Cinemax, CNN, Headline News, Nickelodeon, MTV, The Weather Channel, CBN, TNN, Lifetime, A&E, TEMPO (kind of a full-service network that eventually gave way to the creation of CNBC), a school board access channel (branded as "WGRE"; they also carried some PBS educational shows), and an electronic program guide channel (audio weather reports from the National Weather Service were included). Besides the locals, I don't remember what channels numbers that the other networks were placed (although I do believe that TBS was on 17, just like it was on many other cable systems at the time). Also, even though they had the 35-channel capacity prior to its expansion, I was always surprised that Rockford Cablevision didn't carry any other outof-town stations, like WFLD, WPWR or WGBO (all from Chicago) or WVTV and WCGV Milwaukee, or even set aside a channel for network pre-emptions (the Chicago network stations would have been the more reliable choice). Question re "The Tonight Show" and other talk shows on AFRTS in the '60s-'70s ...I've noticed that the AFRTS kinescope that was used for the original DVD release of Return to Studio One, the Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson from 1969 on which Bob Hope and Dean Martin "walked on" and George Gobel topped both of 'em with his "tuxedo" quip, only contains about 40 minutes of the show whereas the entire program would have run about an hour without the ad breaks (a 90-minute slot with commercials when aired on NBC). When AFRTS ran the show on their worldwide affiliates at that time, did they run the entire program or edit the content down to about a 40- or 45-minute slot? And did AFRTS run any of the other talk shows (particularly The Joey Bishop Show, the CBS or Metromedia versions of The Merv Griffin Show, The Dick Cavett Show, The David Frost Show and Tomorrow with Tom Snyder) that were produced in the United States during the period?... I vaguely remember watching AFRTS when my dad was stationed at Clark Air Base in the Philippines in the mid-60s when I was little. All I remember was their running little fillers between shows, like a 3 -4 minute film of a golf ball rolling endlessly from one locale to another, with "Holiday for Strings" or some similar tune. In '76 I visited my brother for the summer, when he was stationed at another base (he was also in the USAF). He borrowed a 16mm projector and various films from the base library. One film was a Bob Hope special shot at the Air Force Academy. (In one sketch, Bob said he graduated next-to-last in his class: "there's one guy around here who's dumber than me." Then someone walks by in a cadet uniform wearing an Alfred E. Neuman mask.) The show was kinescoped, but three musical numbers shot on film were

spliced in, probably not part of the original broadcast, but used to pad out the show for AFRTS: Neile Adams (Steve McQueen's first wife) singing "My Heart Belongs to Daddy," and Kay Starr singing two other songs.

One YouTuber has what is presumed to be a complete 1969 episode of "The Tonight Show" with guest host Jerry Lewis, sourced from an AFRTS kinescope, with PSAs replacing commercials. The show has been uploaded in 15 parts: http://www.youtube.com/user/comedylaff/videos?flow=grid&view=0

Evening newscasts in 50s/60s/70s--which network was highest-rated?

All righty, then, friends, it is long past time for me to strike again. In the honorable tradition of Steve Urkel from Family Matters and Dennis the Menace (Jay North, of course), I come to agitate this hallowed forum and pester you ... well ... gentlemen for no particular reason (BTW, any ladies hit this forum? I dunno.). And the question inquiring minds want to know this time is: network newscasts are a much more slippery thing in terms of impact and ratings than they used to be because of cable, internet, and the whole all-day media circus. But in the times when Pa had to go to the set at precisely 6:41 in the evening to fire up the thing in the time for the nightly news, does anybody really have an accurate idea about who, beginning with, say, the Eisenhower administration and the Korean War, was on top? We know the cast of characters here: Douglas Edwards helmed the Tiffany Network's 15-minute powwow every night, while across the dial on NBC, we got John Cameron Swayze and his somewhat rambunctious Camel News Caravan, the latter having been held up to ridicule in recent times for Swayze's pushing Camel cigs (both figuratively and literally, between his lips) in between stories, while in studio. If Wikipedia is to be believed, it looks like John Charles Daly, best known for his long stint on What's My Line?, was the mainstay on the Alphabet channel, but everybody who knows jack-squat about the history of American television knows that ABC didn't have anywhere near the number of stations that CBS or NBC did. The Fifties probably weren't much to brag about in terms of network news division performance, but as the Kennedy presidency brought about crisis after crisis, TV news had to grow up quick, and this was BEFORE the November 1963 assassination. By 1956, though, NBC outgrew the antics of Swayze and gave him a pink slip (or perhaps a Timex watch?) in favor of the two of the most-memorable broadcasters on their age, Chet Huntley and David Brinkley. Inspired by a local newscast in West Virginia, the Peacock hierarchy came upon the idea of stationing Huntley at 30 Rock and Brinkley at Nebraska Avenue in D.C. Put together with a hard-hitting but rock-steady presentation by Huntley and the inimitable wit and genteel sarcasm of Brinkley, HBR got the upper edge as

Eisenhower left office. Over at the Eyeball ranch on West 57th, Douglas Edwards had measured up for years to the gold standard of Edward R. Murrow as the statesman newscaster. But feeling the Huntley-Brinkley Report heat, CBS pulled the trigger and demoted Edwards to daytime, bringing in the personification of television news for a generation of viewers: one Walter Leland Cronkite. Somebody on Wikipedia has muddied the issue of who was the first to expand to a full 30 minutes each night, but NBC and CBS did so by '63; ABC, meanwhile, would hold out for four years while it tried everything but circus acts in the anchor chair. For a while, it looked like a young Canadian by the name of Peter Jennings might be the Golden Boy for the Alphabet crew, but he didn't cut it right off (with his strong, British-inflected accent then, there was no way he could have), and he went back into the field for more seasoning. General wisdom holds that HBR held a narrow lead during the middle of the decade, but as Vietnam went full-blast in '65-'66 and America seemed to be careening out of control to many, Mr. Cronkite, with his measured, serious, but calming tone became the preferred supper-time companion for a growing number. It wasn't until toward the end of the decade that ABC finally settled on a stable lineup of Howard K. Smith and Frank Reynolds--or so it seemed for awhile. The Age of Aquarius dawned on CBS' competitors rather sharply. Huntley hung it up in the summer of '70, and HBR became just plain generic NBC Nightly News, with, get this, a troika of rotating newsmen: Frank McGee stationed at 30 Rock, Brinkley staying put in Washington as he had for the past 14 years, and the senior correspondent of HBR, John Chancellor, going wherever one of the first two wasn't, meaning that when Brinkley was off for the night, on the East Coast line he went to D.C, probably not getting back to NYC until midnight. (Actually, McGee was sick for awhile in late '70, and Edwin Newman pinch-hitted in Gotham.) And over at ABC, network execs got the itch for better ratings and a way to exploit the mess at NBC, so they busted Reynolds down to reporter and shelled out high moola to get Harry Reasoner from the Eyeball channel. Viewers balked at that also and decided that Cronkite was the Gibraltar rock of evening news, and "that's the way it was" until CBS' then-mandatory retirement policy required "Uncle Walter" to step down in '81. By '71, NBC had learned its lesson and decided on Chancellor every night, with Brinkley relieved of the nightly grind in favor of several commentaries per week, and McGee going to The Today Show (a job which more than one person has observed he thoroughly loathed) until his untimely death in Spring '74. It still wasn't happening, though, and the Peacock brass opted to bring Brinkley back in the anchor's chair in '76 and see if the old HBR chemistry night pull off a renaissance. No such luck. ABC was still floundering at mid-decade, and the decision was to make to milk the Reasoner acquisition for all it was worth by easing HKS into semi-retirement with commentaries only (a la Brinkley and CBS' Eric Sevareid) and trying Reasoner solo. When that didn't fly, ABC went back to its old strategy of luring away rival talent and snatched Barbara Walters from Today and NBC. What ensued was what what TV critics deemed the worst pairing of anchors in American TV history. It looked for awhile like

the Alphabet boys might have considered running Howdy Doody reruns as counterprogramming or other desparation tactics. But salvation was on its way from the one strong suit ABC had: its sports division and its innovator head, Roone Arledge. Arledge was given the commission in '78 to revamp everything. First off, he sent Reasoner packing back to his old haunt on West 57th and 60 Minutes, which he cofounded with Mike Wallace a decade earlier and, more importantly, which was now a big ratings hit. Barbara Walters was allowed to return to her natural habitat of sob-sister and celeb interviews, and wound up reunited not long after with her old Today chum, Hugh Downs, when he opted to come out of retirement for the new 20/20, one of Arledge's new aggressive ideas. Arledge decided to reverse not one, but TWO previous demotions from the anchor desk: Peter Jennings returned after a decade's absence at the London bureau, and the venerable, authoritative Frank Reynolds was vindicated from the unconscionable brushing aside he got eight years earlier. The result was World News Tonight, with multiple anchor desks: the third man would break the color barrier for a network newscast, Max Robinson, who set up in Chicago. This configuration finally clicked with the American public, and gradually ABC built a solid reputation as a serious, thoroughgoing operation, rather than an afterthought as it had been in previous decades. NBC kept hitting the skids no matter what it did, thanks in no small part to the network's deterioration in all dayparts. John Chancellor finally called it a day in early '82 and handed the reins over to the Peacock's Golden Boy for nearly a decade, one Thomas John Brokaw. We must arbitrarily end the story there, as cultural changes such as cable were taking off around that time. But does anyone have an idea if this understanding of the network's vagaries and fortunes over the three-decade period? I'm ready for a long thread on this one, so send 'em on.

IIRC, NBC was the ratings leader pretty much from the first Nielsen ratings in 1950 to about 1963, seeing it through the John Cameron Swayze "Camel News Caravan" era and the first seven years of the Huntley-Brinkley Report. Douglas Edwards at CBS was a close second. ABC (with various anchors in the early days, and John Daly from 1953 to 1960) did very well in the markets where it was seen but didn't have coverage parity with the other networks until the 1970s, so it was a fairly distant third overall. After he arrived at the anchor desk in 1962 Walter Cronkite did help the ratings for CBS almost immediately, although he first really jumped into the lead in the Nielsens after he went to a half-hour nightly broadcast in 1963 (NBC was 15 minutes for several months longer, ABC until 1967). Cronkite would stay in the lead for the rest of his career until his retirement in 1981. NBC then was a respectable second, and ABC stayed third (although more respectably, as their affiliate lineup grew and strengthened in the 70s) until the combination of Cronkite's retirement, Dan Rather's occasionally erratic performance, Tom Brokaw's arrival at the NBC anchor desk, and the maturing of Peter Jennings at ABC made it a legitimate three way race.

NBC's advantage in news ratings in the early 1950's was predicated on one thing: their nightly newscast was available in more cities than either CBS or ABC. While stations in one-station markets generally carried programs from ABC, CBS, DuMont and NBC, they often picked NBC's newscast. Even in multiple-station markets, stations sometimes didn't carry network news. For example, here in Boston, there were two stations in the early 1950's: WBZ-4 (an NBC primary affiliate that also carried a couple of shows each from ABC and DuMont), and WNAC-7 (which was a primary CBS affiliate but carried a handful of ABC shows and a couple of DuMont programs). According to TV listings in various editions of the Boston Globe and Boston Post published in 1950 and 1951, WBZ carried John Cameron Swayze's "Camel News Caravan", but WNAC didn't carry any network newscast. In nearby Providence, WJAR-11 (later on Channel 10) was the market's only TV station until 1953, and while it carried about half the CBS schedule (as well as about half of NBC's schedule plus a few ABC and DuMont shows; it was a primary NBC affiliate as it is to this day) in it's early years, it carried Swayze and not Edwards. I believe there were a couple of years in the mid-1950's when WNAC did carry Douglas Edwards, but by 1957, they were again not doing so. When the original WHDH-5 signedon in the Fall of 1957, they carried Edwards instead of ABC's own John Charles Daly. Channel 5 continued to carry Edwards until he was replaced by Walter Cronkite in April of 1962 (on January 1, 1961, the original WHDH became a CBS affiliate). Interestingly enough, when WNAC became the ABC affiliate in early 1961, they began carrying ABC's evening newscast (which was anchored by Bill Shadel, who had just replaced Daly). But there was a brief time around 1968 and 1969 when it didn't carry ABC's network newscast (and in fact, independent WSBK-38 cleared the newscast for a time). Swayze being seen in Boston and Providence while Edwards certainly had to help NBC and hurt CBS, especially since there were likely other markets like them where a viewer could watch Swayze but could not see Edwards. Clearance of network evening newscasts, especially ABC's, was a major problem until the early 1970's. The turning point was when Harry Reasonear (who had just joined ABC to co-anchor with Howard K. Smith) made a speech criticizing TV stations that didn't carry network evening newscasts. After that, just about the only markets where ABC's evening newscast was not seen were those where the ABC affiliate also had affiliations with CBS and/or NBC and thus, preferred Walter Cronkite or John Chancellor. I had thought that the "CBS Evening News", then with Douglas Edwards, passed John Cameron Swayze's "Camel/Plymouth News Caravan" in the ratings by 1955 (circa 1955, Plymouth sponsored the newscast one or two nights a week), and it's ratings were falling

in 1956; hence, after their performance at the conventions, Chet Huntley and David Brinkley replaced Swayze. I believe Huntley and Brinkley had pulled into a dead heat with Edwards in early 1958, but it wasn't until 1960 that "Huntley/Brinkley" pulled ahead.

I also thought Edwards passed Swayze around 1955, only to be bested by Chet and David by the start of the '60s. I've also read that Cronkite didn't take over first place for good until 1967, as people felt that the times were too serious for Chet and David's more easygoing style. As for ABC, once the Alphabet Network got 100% clearance in 1972, Howard K. and Harry frequently tied, and sometimes bested, Chancellor through the Watergate period. But around 1974 their ratings began to drop again; Reasoner wanted to anchor solo (to compete on equal terms with Cronkite), which turned out to be a mistake, compounded by the teaming of Reasoner and Barbara Walters (1976-78). "World News Tonight" may not have been number one at first but it did attract a different audience from CBS and NBC, what with its different look; ABC really established itself as a network to be taken seriously with its coverage of the Iranian hostage crisis (which begat "Nightline" as well). And as pointed out, by the '80s Peter Jennings sounded as if he knew what he was talking about; IMO, he may go down as the last of the great network anchors (and I'll include Edward R. Murrow, even though he never anchored the "CBS Evening News" but did do a nightly news and commentary broadcast on CBS Radio in the late '40s and all through the '50s). I do think, too, that CBS could have done more with Douglas Edwards; maybe it was inevitable that Cronkite was going to replace him, but I think he could have had more than just the five-minute daytime newscast he did for over 20 years, or a handful of radio newscasts; why CBS didn't put him on weekends or on "CBS Reports" I'll never know. I've told this story before, but it's worth repeating, I think: one day in the '70s Don Hewitt (who had produced Edwards' newscast) was having lunch with Swayze's former producer. Swayze's guy said that it was probably inevitable that Cronkite, Huntley, and Brinkley would have eventually replaced Edwards and Swayze, "but at least your guy had the class to stay in the news business; I mean, he didn't go out and become a (expletive deleted) watch salesman."

"I do think, too, that CBS could have done more with Douglas Edwards; maybe it was inevitable that Cronkite was going to replace him, but I think he could have had more than just the five-minute daytime newscast he did for over 20 years, or a handful of

radio newscasts; why CBS didn't put him on weekends or on "CBS Reports" I'll never know." One thing I'll never know, is why, when Edwards was effectively demoted by CBS, ABC didn't make a run at him. He could have given the ABC network instant credibility in a way John Daly (who had been an outstanding radio journallist in the 1940s but was known by 1962 primarily for "What's My Line") was never able to do. Just to correct an earlier post, The huntley-Brinkley Report was not several months behind CBS in expanding to a half hour evening newscast. NBC went to thirty minutes on September 9, 1963, exactly one week after CBS. Both newscasts included interviews with President Kennedy during their inaugural thirty minute broadcasts. I believe ABC also wanted to expand it's evening newscast to a half-hour around 1964, but it's affiliates did not want to give up an extra fifteen minutes to a low-rated newscast and that it wasn't until late 1966 that ABC finally got the affiliates to agree, with the news expanding in January of 1967. I believe that except for some 1966 editions (during space flights and the 1966 midterm election night), ABC's evening newscast remained in black-and-white until it expanded to a half-hour.

Reasons for stations switching affiliations Re the Spokane switch that was triggered by KXLY's tendency to schedule CBS programs to suit itself: WKRG Mobile did the same thing for years, and probably avoided loss of its CBS affiliation after the Spokane switch. It must have put the fear of Paley into WKRG, because they then (mid-'70s) began carrying virtually everything in pattern. Regarding WSJV, I think the fact that Fox had recently picked up the NFC football package (including the Bears) played a role in the switch. And, I vaguely recall that the switch there may have caused ABC to pull its affiliation from WREX in Rockford (which had recently been purchased by WSJV's owner, Quincy Newspapers); that said, I don't think I can confirm the retaliatory intent of that switch.

The Twin Cities has experienced four afilliation swaps over time(The 1952 conversion WTCN-TV 1.0 to WCCO-TV doesn't count since the station carried both ABC(1st primary) and CBS(2nd primary) at the same time. Neither does the conversions of the present CW and MyNetwork stations from their former WB and UPN affiliations).

1961: WTCN-TV 2.0 lost the ABC affiliation to KMSP-TV(formerly a DuMont station). I have no idea how it came about. 1978-79: The great switcheroo. As ABC skyrocketed in the '70's, it became patently obvious that United Television, KMSP's owner, had very little interest in having a competitive news operation. With this is mind, ABC made offers in 1977 to KSTP-TV, then with NBC; WCCO-TV, the CBS station; and WTCN-TV, the independent. Well the Hubbard family finally said yes in August of 1978, setting off a battle royale between WTCN and KMSP for NBC. WTCN won out, forcing KMSP to go independent. And WCCO lampooned all of this with some funny ads.Studioz-7 has a great article about KMSP's travails in the '70's. 1988: KMSP-TV is back again, only this time it's for defecting the Fox network, because it's ratings were horrible. KITN took over that affiliation until... 2002: By this time both KMSP and the re-call signed WFTC were now under the new ownership of Fox Television Stations(KMSP via the buyout of United Television/BHC/Chris-Craft; WFTC via a swap with Clear Channel for KTVX in Salt Lake City and KMOL(WOAI-TV) in San Antonio). WFTC held the Fox affiliation, but KMSP was the stronger channel at that point(and still is). So Fox, needing to improve it's standing in this market, orchestrated the switch that occured on the opening day of the NFL season.

I don't know the reason for the Sacramento switch, but it may be similar to San Diego. In the mid-70s, ABC became the number 1 network (think Happy Days, Laverne & Shirely, Kotter, etc.) and NBC had dropped to a distant 3rd. In San Diego, KOGO-TV 10 had been the NBC affiliate, but seized the opportunity to become an affiliate of the more popular network. It was probably an advantage for ABC too, since their programming had been run on XETV 6 out of Tijuana, Mexico. NBC ended up on a UHF station, and XETV became independent - now FOX, naturally. That was also the reason in 1989, when in Rochester NY, WHEC-TV took the NBC affiliation away from WROC. NBC was then the #1 network, plus they had AFC football, meaning the NBC affiliate in Rochester got to broadcast Buffalo Bills football, just in time for their Super Bowl run. WROC had to settle for CBS, which I think was the #3 network at the time. It was actually fitting - WROC was a mess then (and still is). Ironically, CBS has AFC football now, so the Bills are back on WROC.

I saw a rumor once that WROC's news at one time was being beat by the local cable news station. You can't get much lower than that! As far back as 1976 when WROC was TVAM-FM (WPXY) I auditioned for a job at WROC-AM. Believe me I wanted no part of them after my weekend try out. Some places are just jinxed must be bad Karma in the

building they have been through a couple of owners since then. Sorry to hear the TV station is still a mess. My favorite story is what happened in Miami. Talk about swaps! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTVJ Probably the ultimate swap story, it even triggered a swap in West Palm Beach, not to mention a later swap when Westinghouse became part of CBS. If you're interested in this sort of thing it's an interesting story!

I saw a rumor once that WROC's news at one time was being beat by the local cable news station. You can't get much lower than that! As far back as 1976 when WROC was TVAM-FM (WPXY) I auditioned for a job at WROC-AM. Believe me I wanted no part of them after my weekend try out. Some places are just jinxed must be bad Karma in the building they have been through a couple of owners since then. Sorry to hear the TV station is still a mess. It may have been in 2007, but channel 8 is in very good shape right now. It went HD last month, a year or so after market-leading WHAM-TV 13 but well ahead of WHEC-TV 10, which is still in SD (and was still shooting in Beta just a few weeks ago!). They've settled down on a solid anchor team that's found traction in the market, and they're at least a regular contender for second place in most dayparts and have won at 11 on occasion. Are there any markets where no station ever changed its affiliation unless the network they carried folded, merged or became a syndication service? Hartford/New Haven wouldn't count in this case: CBS - went from channel 18 of Hartford to channel 3 of Hartford at the end of the 1950s. ABC - has been on channel 8 of New Haven as long as I've been around (1971), maybe longer. NBC - has been on channel 30 of New Britain as their primary affiliation since their 1953 sign on. The market also had NBC on channel 20 of Waterbury until 1982. Channel 20 then became independent WTXX-TV. This was largely due to channel 30 increasing their signal around 1978, making channel 20's coverage of more western and southern areas redundant. FOX- has been on channel 61 of Hartford since they started in 1986 with Joan Rivers' talk show. If we count the lesser networks:

CW - Assumed by channel 20 after the merge of WB and UPN. Channel 20 had been WB. MY - Started on channel 59 of New Haven when they lost UPN. ION - Started out as PAX on channel 26 of New London. Channel 26 was once WTWSTV (IND). I know Boston/Worcester and Providence/New Bedford wouldn't qualify. The original "Big 3" would in Portland/Poland Spring (WCSH, WMTW and WGME) and Bangor (WLBZ, WABI and WVII) would, but not their FOX stations. In Portland, WPXT-TV channel 51 signed on in 1986 and was an independent for about one month. They took FOX when it started up in October of 1986 with Joan Rivers. WPXT-TV would lose their FOX affiliation in October of 2001. The market went well over a year without their own FOX station. The old WMPX-TV (PAX) channel 23 of Waterville would then be converted to today's WPFO-TV, a.k.a. FOX 23. Are there any markets where no station ever changed its affiliation unless the network they carried folded, merged or became a syndication service? Houston.

Are there any markets where no station ever changed its affiliation unless the network they carried folded, merged or became a syndication service? Houston. Tucson, Wausau/Rhinelander, Waterloo/Cedar Rapids. It's amazing how fortunes at WROC have changed in the past five years after having stayed the same for the previous 30. And at this point, I'm sure they're more than happy to be the CBS affiliate and not the NBC.

The story of network affiliation changes in my neck of the woods: In Boston, WBZ-4 was the primary NBC affiliate fro m it's launch on June 9, 1948 through January 1, 1995. In it's early years, it carried a handful of ABC and DuMont shows. WNAC-7 came on the air June 21, 1948, and was CBS primary, with some ABC and DuMont programs.

On November 26th,. 1957, Channel 5 (originally WHDH, no relation to the station on Channel 7 now using those call letters) came on the air and became primary ABC, giving all three networks (DuMont had folded by this time) a full-time affiliate here in Boston for the first time. In March of 1960, NBC had planned to swap it's Washington stations (WRC/WRC-TV) with RKO General's Boston properties (WNAC/WNAC-TV). This would have made WNAC the NBC station. These changes were expected to take effect on or around January 1, 1961. CBS made a deal to affiliate with WHDH-5, leaving WBZ-4 for ABC. But the FCC turned down this deal, so WBZ was able to keep it's NBC-TV affiliation. CBS, however, wanted to move to Channel 5 since it's tower (and that of WBZ) was much taller than WNAC's, and had a larger signal area. So instead of becoming an NBC affiliate (yet), WNAC became an ABC affiliate on January 1, 1961, and Channel 5 became CBS. A decade later, when the Boston Herald-Traveller, the parent of the original Channel 5, lost the license for the station, CBS was scared stiff of the new owners' (WCVB) proposal to pre-empt several hours of prime-time each week for local programming. Thus, CBS came back to WNAC (which by now was transmitting from the Needham antenna farm with a signal comparable to WBZ and WCVB) and ABC, after briefly talking to WSBK-38 and WKBG-56, decided to go with WCVB. This was effective March 19, 1972, the day WCVB took mover Channel 5, and in effect reversed the 1961 affiliation swap. In the end, WCVB didn't pre-empt as many prime-time network programs as ABC feared and has become year=-in and year-out, one of ABC's strongest affiliations. One note about WBZ going to CBS in 1995: In the end, NBC went with the nowWHDH-7, and there's some irony in that. WHDH is owned by Ed Ansin, and back in 1988, he got dumped by the Peacock Network when NBC purchased a TV station in Miami. There's even an urban legend that Ansin found out about the deal when a news department editor came in his office with a piece of wire-service copy reporting that NBC purchased another Miami station. The news editor showed Ansin the story and said "Mr. Ansin, this confirms the news you got from NBC that they're buying WTVJ" (the news editor assumed Ansin had already known about this). Ansin reportedly said "This is the first I've heard of it! F*** NBC!!". I don't know if this story is true. Maybe someone in South Florida can tell us if this story is true. But six and a half years later, after NBC supposedly came close to buying WFXT-25 from Fox, the network decided to do business with Ansin again, this time in Boston.

The major reason for ABC moving from WTEV-6 to WPRI-12 in 1977 was signalrelated. WTEV (now WLNE)'s analog signal was transmitted from a tower in Tiverton, Rhode Island, southeast of Providence and just north of the coastal resort town of Newport. WTEV/WLNE couldn't move it's analog tower any further to the north or closer to Providence (WJAR-10 and WPRI-12 transmit from Rehobeth, Massachusetts, which is east of Providence) because to do so would create significant interference to WCSH in Portland, Maine, also on Channel 6. North of Providence, the WTEV/WLNE analog signal quickly dropped-off. In most of the Boston area, WJAR and WPRI's analog signals were easily picked-up on most TV sets. Not Channel 6. With ABC's moving to first place in prime-time in 1976, the network thought they could finally realistically upgrade it's affiliate roster, and Providence was a major priority, given WTEV's signal problems. Prior to 1977, many viewers in Providence and points north would watch ABC programs from Boston's WCVB-5 (since March, 1972, and from WNAC-7 between January of 1961 to March of 1972) because it had a clearer signal than the more "local" WTEV. Due in large part to signal limitations, WTEV/WLNE has almost always been a poor third in local news ratings from the time they went on the air on January 1st, 1963. In this digital era, all of Providence's TV stations have equivalent signals, and in fact, WLNE's digital signal is transmitted from Rehobeth, just as WJAR's and WPRI's digital signals are. If you can receive one of the three with a clear over-the-air signal, you can usually get the other two just as strongly. Perhaps now that their over-the-air signal in the market is the equal of it's rivals, maybe WLNE will be able to celebrate it's 50th anniversary year in 2013 by finally becoming fully competitive in local news (in terms of both resources and viewer popularity). Are there any markets where no station ever changed its affiliation unless the network they carried folded, merged or became a syndication service? Three of the major network affiliates in Oklahoma City have never changed affiliations. The analog-era VHF stations, KFOR, KOCO and KWTV, have been affiliated with NBC, ABC and CBS respectively since they all signed on. KFOR has had NBC since it debuted in June 1949 as Oklahoma's first TV station, but had secondary affiliations with CBS, ABC and DuMont early on. It lost ABC twice: first in 1953, when KTVQ (which occupied the channel 25 allocation since held by Fox affiliate KOKH) signed on, and then again when KGEO-TV out of Enid (which was already an ABC affiliate) moved to Oklahoma City in 1958 and became KOCO-TV. It lost the CBS affiliation when KWTV

signed on in 1953. The same can't be said with the stations on the virtual UHF dial: KOKH was an educational station, when it signed on in 1959, then became a general entertainment station in '79. KAUT flipped networks multiple times: first as an independent, then getting the Fox affiliation in 1986; then becoming a PBS station in 1990 (when Fox moved to KOKH); then flipping to UPN in '98, when Paramount/Viacom bought the station; then joining MyNetworkTV in 2006, and now it's an independent again since KSBI (which was an independent since it signed on in '88, first as a religious station and then as a entertainment station) got the affiliation. KOCB was an independent until 1995, when it joined UPN and then ditched it in favor of The WB in 1998 as part of Sinclair's affiliation deal with the network (that left UPN without an Oklahoma City affiliate for six months, until KAUT dropped PBS) and is now with The CW. "Are there any markets where no station ever changed its affiliation unless the network they carried folded, merged or became a syndication service?" I think Syracuse, NY qualifies, although the same station has changed callsigns and channels at times during the analog era. WHEN-TV/WTVH (channel 8 from 1948-61, then channel 5) has been primary CBS from the start. WSYR-TV/WSTM-TV (channel 5 from 1950-53, then channel 3) was always primary NBC, still is. WNYSTV/WIXT/WSYR-TV (channel 9 from its 1962 sign-on to the end of the analog era) has never been anything but ABC. And WSYT (channel 68) has always been the Fox affiliate from the time that network got started in the 1986-87 season. The OTA channels for all the stations have changed now, and the stations have each changed owners several times. But networks in Syracuse seem to stay put... To correct part of my own post earlier: Today's WTNH-TV channel 8 of New Haven did NOT always have ABC as its primary affiliation. They were DuMont first and then a CBS primary/ABC and NBC secondary. They didn't become our primary ABC affiliate until 1956. I stand corrected.

Joseph_Gallant: Quote North of Providence, the WTEV/WLNE analog signal quickly dropped-off. In most of the Boston area, WJAR and WPRI's analog signals were easily picked-up on most TV sets. Not Channel 6. The biggest Ch 6 problem for most viewers was adjacent channel interference by Ch 5 on the lower side, and the many stations in the 88-108 MHz portion of the FM band on the upper side, especially 100 KW WGBH-FM, 89.7 MHz. Some TVs were also affected by image rejection problems from Ch 7. It also made a mess on much of the southern Cape.

In return, Ch 5's signal had problems close to Providence, though to a far lesser extent. Traps could clear most of this up - but except for large apartment systems - few bothered. Channel 7 shouldn't have been an issue to Channel 6 as the two channels are greatly distant in frequency. The major reason for ABC moving from WTEV-6 to WPRI-12 in 1977 was signalrelated. I thought the swap was all about Knight-Ridder(WPRI's owner) wanting all of their stations at ABC(this coming after it bought Poole). Channel 7 shouldn't have been an issue to Channel 6 as the two channels are greatly distant in frequency. Actually it was a problem, especially with the earlier electronic (varacter-tuned) tuners. A strong local Ch 7 signal could get thru the tuner RF stages. When tuned to Ch 6 (82 - 88 MHZ, video carrier 83.25 MHz, audio 87.75 MHz), the local oscillator would be running at 129 MHz to generate the inverted IF frequencies (audio 41.25 MHz, video carrier 45.75 MHz). Ch 7 (174 - 180 MHz, video carrier at 175.25 MHz) when mixed with 129 MHz, produces 46.25 MHz - right at the top edge of the IF bandwidth. Now add the effect of mixing the vestigial lower sideband of Ch 7 (beginning at 174.25 MHz) which fell directly within the upper IF range. This showed as a hazy overlay of the Ch 7 video, and often killed color on Ch 6. The TV manufacturers knew about it - Sony had a publication about this, which included a review of VHF hi-band traps available. This was a better known problem in the UHF band and image rejection was one of the many UHF Taboos concerning channel spacing - this one barring 14 or 15 channel spacing to 60 - 75 miles apart. Regarding WSJV, I think the fact that Fox had recently picked up the NFC football package (including the Bears) played a role in the switch. And, I vaguely recall that the switch there may have caused ABC to pull its affiliation from WREX in Rockford (which had recently been purchased by WSJV's owner, Quincy Newspapers); that said, I don't think I can confirm the retaliatory intent of that switch. Also WLS on analog 7 was a powerhouse. I didn't have too much trouble getting it on a portable with rabbit ears, when I'd visit South Bend, not so with the other VHFs, (WGN's Channel 9 was also do-able). The UHFs were no where to be found. So I imagine with a decent outdoor antenna, it was easy to get get a clear WLS from Chicago and impossible to get a half way decent UHF on FOX 32 Chicago. While that isn't the primary reason it helps.

The same thing in Terra Haute, Indiana, too much overlap in the market by ABC from Indy, Decatur and Evansville on those ABC stations.

"Hour Magazine" with Gary Collins The recent passing of Gary Collins had me thinking about the syndicated talk show he hosted during the 1980s. Despite running for eight and-a-half years and earning its host a daytime Emmy award, Hour Magazine may very well be the "forgotten" talk show of its era. The topics discussed were tame and light, free of the trashy, tabloid salaciousness that would rear its head on Donahue, Oprah, Sally and Geraldo. When it ended in January 1989, Collins admitted that its non-confrontational approach perhaps played a role in the cancellation, as per this article from the Los Angeles Times (http://articles.latimes.com/1989-01-02/entertainment/ca-180_1_gary-collins) There's not much info about Hour Magazine on the web, and not too many clips of the show on YouTube beyond promos and a literal handful of interviews. Anyone have any memories of this show to share? Gary Collins went to ABC's Home Show after ending Hour Magazine. He also was the host of Miss America through most of the 80's. Um, can't say that I recall Hour Magazine much. I think, of all the shows on now, it resembled perhaps the old Live With Regis and Kathie Lee (now with Kelly Ripa and Michael Strahan). But beyond that, I suspect that it was a solid, civil hour, and Collins' mild-mannered style helped immensely to make it so. In the Bay Area, it was [iEvening Magazine[/i] with Jan Yanehiro and Richard Hart. IIRC- it had cut-ins from Collins, but that wasn't the main focus of the show. So, Group W (which was behind both "Hour Magazine" and "PM Magazine"/"Evening Magazine") apparently did a bit of cross-pollinating. Did this happen on any "PM" stations (i.e., those not owned by Group W)? Definitely not on stations where Hour Magazine and PM Magazine aired on separate channels -- in the Tampa Bay area, WTVT Tampa and WXLT/WWSB Sarasota aired Hour Magazine, while WTOG and, later, WTSP, aired PM Magazine. Definitely not on stations where Hour Magazine and PM Magazine aired on separate

channels -- in the Tampa Bay area, WTVT Tampa and WXLT/WWSB Sarasota aired Hour Magazine, while WTOG and, later, WTSP, aired PM Magazine. WISN/Milwaukee ran both shows. However by 1986 "PM Magazine" moved to WITI (which used the syndicated version) and by 1987 "Hour Magazine" moved to WCGV for its final year. Both Hour Magazine (later in it's run, it started on WESH) and PM Magazine aired on WCPX (now WKMG). It was quite similar here in Los Angeles, the local version of PM Magazine was on KTTV for its entire run, while Hour started on KTLA (whose studio facility was used for its tapings), and then later moved to KTTV around '84-ish (KTTV's Metromedia Square/Fox Television Center was also used for Hour Magazine tapings in its final years; KTLA and KTTV were located across the street from each other in Hollywood until '97, when KTTV moved to a new studios in West Los Angeles). If I remember correctly back in Rockford, WIFR originally carried Hour Magazine until about '85 or '86, and later moved to WTVO for the remainder of its run (it always aired in mid-mornings, pre-empting a hour of NBC Daytime). Rockford, as far as I recall, never had PM Magazine at all. I think that Mike Stroud has the correct assessment on what Hour Magazine, but I go a step further in saying it resembled both Live and Rachael Ray (with the cooking and lifestyle segments). Hour Magazine was practically an "all-in-one" show...entertainment, fitness, cooking, lifestyle, medical, travel, and current events; for its time, it served as a pretty useful program. Hour Magazine was practically an "all-in-one" show...entertainment, fitness, cooking, lifestyle, medical, travel, and current events; for its time, it served as a pretty useful program. It was practically like "The Mike Douglas Show" but without the guest hosts.

...by 1986 "PM Magazine" moved to WITI (which used the syndicated version)... I thought PM Magazine was entirely syndicated to stations? "PM Magazine" was franchised like "Romper Room" and "Bowling For Dollars." Local host, syndicated segments. When did Alaska and Hawaii get live network coverage?

Does anybody have an idea when network stations in Alaska and Hawaii were able to access the networks in real time? The archivist in me thinks there could be many lost kinescopes in both of those locations. Wanna say 1982, give or take a year, for Alaska. I was stationed there 1978-80. During my tour, KAKM, the PBS station, was the first to go same-night schedule as the 48; however.... KIMO 13 (ABC) was 1-week delay, very often delaying the start of programs, ostensibly to fit more commercials; KTVA 11 (CBS) was 2-week delay; KENI-TV (NBC) was 3-week delay. This was, of course, Anchorage; possibly Fairbanks was even longer delay. We have an RD member in Fairbanks; maybe he can enlighten us. cd The Apollo 11 mission was the first ever live network TV broadcast to Alaska in 1969; then in the '70s, the network news, sports, and special events like the Oscars would later be seen same-day. In the early '80s, Juneau got their shows same-day, which explained the one- to two-week delay. But that long practice came to a permanent end in 1984 when the other networks all transitioned to satellite. In the early '80s, Juneau got their shows same-day, which explained the one- to two-week delay. But that long practice came to a permanent end in 1984 when the other networks all transitioned to satellite.Juneau is much further east than the other major cities in Alaska, and I'm guessing that it would have been much easier for them to simply use the Pacific coast feeds. I am not sure what time zone that they are on, or if they observe DST. If they are, say, one hour behind PST, then it would be similar to those of us on central time getting the EST feeds. But I don't understand how Juneau getting their programming same-day would result in a one or even two-week delay for the rest of the state. And once satellite came in, how did they bring their week-old programming up to date? For primetime shows, they could just skip a week (or two) of reruns in the summer. But for daytime programming, it might not have been so simple. Juneau is on Alaska time (1 hour behind Pacific) and they do observe DST As far as I know, all of Alaska is in its own time zone, except for the western Aleutians,

which is in the same time zone as Hawaii (save for observing DST, which during that time, their time zone is their own). From 1967 to 1983, Alaska was in the same time zone, as Hawaii, except for Juneau and the panhandle area, which was in its own time zone (prior to 1975, it and Yukon Territory shared that time zone).

Hawaii, which began picking up live network programming via satellite in 1966 (mostly sports or award events but tape-delayed by hours or a day), did not go to a same-day network schedule until 1985. The first network program carried live to Hawaii from the mainland was a college football game between Notre Dame and Michigan State in November, 1966. At halftime, the then-ABC station in Honolulu fed to the mainland a live segment from Waikiki Beach which was not only the first TV program or segment beamed live from Hawaii to the mainland, but I believe was also the first local live color TV program broadcast in Hawaii itself. I suspect that for the Apollo space missions, Hawaiian (and Alaskan) TV stations merely carried the NASA pool feeds from Cape Canaveral, the Houston space center (where mission control is), and downlinked the signal from the Pacific satellite of splashdowns in the Pacific that had been sent up to the satellite from pool coverage uplinked from the recovery ship. Thus, I would think that when Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin walked on the moon in July of 1969, Alaskans and Hawaiians never heard the commentary of ABC's Jules Bergman, CBS' Walter Cronkite nor NBC's Frank McGee (who anchored their respective networks' coverage of the Apollo 11 mission). They likely heard commentary from the anchors of the local newscasts of whatever station they were tuned into. For all I know, if there was a space expert living in the area that a particular Alaska or Hawaii station was located in, such an expert would have done commentary or even anchored the coverage for these stations. Thus, I would think that when Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin walked on the moon in July of 1969, Alaskans and Hawaiians never heard the commentary of ABC's Jules Bergman, CBS' Walter Cronkite nor NBC's Frank McGee (who anchored their respective networks' coverage of the Apollo 11 mission). They likely heard commentary from the anchors of the local newscasts of whatever station they were tuned into. "There you have it. One small step for man. And the Islanders drop a double-header against Portland. Film at 11." He's referring to the Hawaii islanders (now the Colorado Springs Sky Sox) and the

Portland Beavers of the Triple-A Pacific Coast League.

I think all of the Anchorage stations got the same live CBS coverage of Apollo 11; Fairbanks, for reasons unknown, watched it on a one-day delay but there was always live radio coverage on KFAR and KFRB. But Super Bowl V in 1971 would be the first time Fairbanks would finally see live network TV. Armed Forces prints and kinescopes have been found that trace to back Hawaii, one in particular was Don Larsen's perfect World Series game. Apollo 11 coverage was tape delayed in Hawaii. Channel 4 (KHVH, now KITV) Apollo 11 coverage was anchored by Chuck Henry (now with KNBC), probably one of the youngest news anchors to cover such a big event. Channel 9 (KGMB) Apollo 11 coverage was anchored by the late Bob Sevey (who filmed some earlier segments in Houston and came home to cover the events such as the splashdown in Hawaii. Channel 2 (KHON) Apollo coverage was anchored by Don Picken, Charles Stubblefield and some science and space experts from the University of Hawaii and The Bishop Museum. Some other tidbits of information... While Monday Night Football is still tape delayed, some might be surprised to know that many sporting events were still tape delayed less than 10 years ago. Why? Because the local stations wanted people to be able to watch the sporting events after they got home from work, the games were often padded with tons of extra commercials too. The 10:00 local news never started on time until around 2001 for all the stations because again the satellite costs were high to carry same day network programming so extra commercials were inserted into the ad breaks. NBC Stations delaying daytime Wheel Of Fortune to afternoons in mid-80s I recall back in 1987 WMAQ 5 in Chicago opted to delay the daytime Wheel Of Fortune to 3:30 while airing the syndicated High Rollers at 10:00 am, ironically the slot that the Trebek NBC daytime run once occupied and I also rcall channel 17 in Rockford also bumping Wheel to afternoons and I've also seen Philadelphia and Boston doing the same around that time. Were there any other NBC stations that did this also as it seems that some station managers may have seen how sucessful the nighttime version had gotten

and thought it would do better with the youger audience coming home from school. WPXI in Pittsburgh did that from 1985-87 [?] running Super Password for a time and later Elaine Joyce's All-New Dating Game.

Madison's WMTV did--and I think that Green Bay's WLUK, Rhinelander/Wausau's WJFW (originally WAEO), and Eau Claire/La Crosse's WEAU all did at some point as well. (At that time, co-owned WKOW [Madison], WAOW [Wausau], and WXOW/WQOW [La Crosse/Eau Claire] all carried the syndicated version.) I think that several other NBC affiliates throughout the region did the same thing. Milwaukee's WTMJ was an exception, in that carried the syndicated version, so it wouldn't need to delay the network version; indeed, given how preemption-happy the station was, it may not have carried it at all for some time.

KYW-TV Philadelphia ran it at 3 in the afternoon in the mid 80s. WTMJ 4 did indeed bump daytime Wheel for a time in the early 80s for syndicated fare although then indy WVTV 18 picked it up for a while along with other NBC Daytime game shows. WBZ Boston used to air it at 3 pm as well. WMC-TV 5 in Memphis moved it to 2:30pm in the fall of 1986 when 5 started airing The Oprah Winfrey Show at 10:00am. By then, it was the only non-soap daytime show WMC cleared! I do remember Dick Hawley's voiceover during the opening theme - "This program was recorded earlier from the NBC television network." Sounded more 1960s than anything in the '80s. In 1986, I was in college 70 miles away in Jonesboro, Ark. in an 8th-floor dorm room. My window faced toward the southwest, so if I had the need to see a program (okay, a lot of programs! ) Ch. 5 didn't carry, I'd unhook the cable, move my telly to the windowsill and watch it on KARK 4 in Little Rock, where from that height I was able to catch a fuzzy, but still tolerable picture. (4 preempted just the first hour of NBC daytime, but otherwise carried it intact) --Russell Broadcast history of "The Gong Show" (1976-80) in your market

How much of the original Gong Show (daytime and/or nighttime) was seen in your market, if any? In Omaha, KMTV 3 (then the NBC affiliate) did not carry daytime Gong until January 3, 1977, when NBC moved it to 3:00 p.m. This version was preempted again when NBC moved it back to 11:30 a.m. on December 5, 1977. The nighttime version started in Omaha the same week the NBC daytime version began airing. WOWT 6 (then the CBS affiliate) carried the Gary Owens version Fridays at 6:30 p.m. starting January 7, 1977. WOWT continued to carry nighttime Gong Fridays at 6:30 p.m. when Chuck Barris became nighttime host in September 1977. WOWT carried this version until September 1978. When syndicated repeats of the NBC daytime version became available in September 1978, KMTV carried these episodes weekdays at 3:00 p.m. through January 1979. The episodes moved to late nights (1:00 a.m. or so) starting in the spring of 1979. Had the whole run of the show, both network and prime access, carried in Rochester, NY on WROC-TV Ch. 8 (then an NBC affiliate, although it's been CBS since 1989). IIRC it ran at 12:30 PM ET on the daytime network feed, right after the noon local news, and 7 PM in prime time access--once again, directly following news (in this case the NBC Nightly News). Down the road in Buffalo, the daytime and syndicated nighttime versions also ran in similar pattern on NBC affiliate WGR-TV (now WGRZ), channel 2. ...working from memory now, I seem to recall that in Green Bay the NBC run was cleared on then-affiliate WFRV/5 and the nighttime run was on WBAY-TV/2, then the CBS affiliate. I'm not quite sure if it was WFRV or WLUK/11 (then ABC) that handled the post-NBC daily syndicated strip, or if WLRE/26 picked it up when it signed on the air in December 1980. In Chicago, I recall it as being WMAQ-TV/5 for the NBC run, WLSTV/7 for the nighttime run, and both WFLD/32 and later WSNS/44 for the post-NBC daily strip...

Wasn't "Gong" already finished by December of '80? Even the theatrically released "Gong Show Movie" had come and gone by then. I really don't remember the original run of the show; I was 4 when NBC cancelled it. I recall old TV GUIDE listings that had it on KGO in San Francisco in '78-79, but don't know if it aired on another station at some point. My experience with the show came from the USA Network reruns around 1984-85. Dallas: KXAS/5 carried the daytime version at 11:30 AM (CT), later at 3 PM. WFAA/8 carried the first year of the syndicated version

(with Gary Owens as host) on Saturdays at 5:30 (CT); after that, KXAS carried it Fridays at 6:30. Atlanta: WSB, then the NBC affiliate, never carried the daytime show; WATL/36 picked it up and ran it in late afternoon (5 or 5:30 PM). WSB did carry the syndicated show starting in the second year, Fridays at 7:30. IIRC, WTRF-TV, Wheeling, WV, then an NBC affiliate aired the show for its entire run. However, I distinctly remember that Channel 7 blanked out an act, claiming that it did not meet their 'decency' requirements. How did they do that? Just audio/no video during the act, or strategically-placed black squares/spots? Wasn't "Gong" already finished by December of '80? Even the theatrically released "Gong Show Movie" had come and gone by then. ...production ceased on The Gong Show in 1980 (NBC evicted the show from its stages upon the network cancellation in 1978, leading Chuck Barris to move production on the syndicated versions to Golden West/KTLA Studios, which he also had been using for The Dating Game and The Newlywed Game). Syndicated repeats were still available to local stations afterwards for several years... It aired in the afternoons on KPRC Houston. I was watching it when they broke in to announce that Elvis Presley died. Reruns aired on USA network in the mid 80s.

In Chicago I believe the nighttime version ran a year on WMAQ 5 in once a week access with other game shows like Name That Tune, Price Is Right etc, and the daytime run used the 3 CT feed so I don't believe the infamous posicle twins segment aired there, the post 1978 rerun strip bounced around on WFLD 32 at first then pre-spanish WSNS 44, also WPWR 60(now 50) had it for a spell in its infancy as part of a Barris rerun block along with Dating Game and Treasure Hunt and likewise WLS 7 in 1985 or so had it in a similar late night rerun block. Here in Boston, I don't think then-NBC station WBZ-4 ever carried the NBC daytime version of the original "Gong Show". The daytime version was cleared by WSBK-38 (and also seen by many Boston-area residents on WJAR-10 in Providence). The once-a-week syndicated version was on WNAC-7 in Boston and also in Providence

on the aforementioned WJAR. I'm not 100% sure, but I think WCVB-5 may have showed the final season of the original weekly syndicated version; I do know that WCVB aired reruns of the syndicated show weekday afternoons around 1980 or 1981. A trade ad for the syndicator of "Gong" (Firestone Program Services) published in early 1977 in both Variety and Broadcasting Magazine bragged that WJAR's showing of the once-a-week "Gong" on Thursday nights at 7:30 P.M. during the November, 1976 (Arbitron, which did TV ratings back then) sweeps drew more women between 18 and 49 than any prime-time network show in the market! lived in rural Mississippi in the 70s and had access to a few NBC affiliates via cable. Two of them I can remember pretty well. WTWV (Tupelo, MS). Carried the daytime version of The Gong Show in pattern with NBC. It was on 11:30am-noon from its premiere and moved to 3:00pm the first Monday in January 1977 after NBC cancelled the soap Somerset. The interesting thing about WTWV was that it was an NBC affiliate carrying secondary ABC programming. Instead of showing Somerset at 3, WTWV aired it at 12 noon and picked up The Edge of Night in pattern with ABC at 3pm. When NBC moved The Gong Show to 3 central, WTWV dropped The Edge of Night. The Gong Show was moved back to 11:30am in December 1977 and stayed with WTWV until it went off the air the next summer. WMC-TV (Memphis, TN). WMC also cleared The Gong Show in pattern for its entire NBC daytime run. This was nothing short of a miracle since WMC was notorious for declining to carry morning game shows. There was a nearly 2 hr block of game shows that channel 5 skipped in spite of their popularity. I've got some old TV Guides from the period. I'll post them for those interested so you can see what those local schedules looked like in the Mid South. CBS affiliates who tape-delayed "The Price Is Right" to afternoons 1979-present The recent Chicago retro schedule from Sept. 4, 1985 showing WBBM-2 tape-delaying "The Price is Right" to 3PM got me wondering. Did any other CBS stations tape-delay TPIR to afternoons after it was moved to its present 11/10 Central time slot in April 1979 (IIRC)? (with the presumptive thinking being that TPIR would appeal to the kids once they came home from school, while the talk shows could air in the morning instead). ...KNXT/2 Los Angeles was running TPIR at 4 PM as early as 1976... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRFVgjF5wmE ...and they (now since re-christened as KCBS-TV), moved TPIR to 3pm during the '99-00

TV season to accomodate Dr. Joy Browne's new syndicated TV show, which aired at 10am locally. That, of course, put TPIR directly against Oprah (on KABC), Rosie O'Donnell (on KNBC), and cartoons (on KTLA/The WB and KTTV/Fox).

In Portland, no more Lunch time with Perry Mason I found this link on another message board earlier, but people in Portland, Oregon aren't exactly happy that a 46-year tradition came to end on Monday, as Perry Mason moved from its longtime noon timeslot on Fox affiliate KPTV (Channel 12) to mornings on sister station KPDX (Channel 49; MyTV). The Rachael Ray Show now currently occupies into the noon slot on 12. http://www.oregonlive.com/movies/index.ssf/2012/09/perry_mason_moves_and_readers. html KATU (the ABC affiliate there) just added Me-TV to its subchannel lineup back on June 25th. According to the station's listings, The Mod Squad airs in Mason's place in the mornings; Mission: Impossible airs at 11:30pm (along the episodes from the national feed at 2am). I suspect that's because Perry Mason runs elsewhere in the market (regardless of air time). It's not a common thing, since most of their programming is older but it does happen. That's certainly the case in Portland, as KPTV/KPDX still holds the rights. We have a similar situation here in Southern California, with another Me-TV show, I Love Lucy, as Fox's KTTV/KCOP holds the rights to that show, and is covered-up here locally on MeTV by The Lucy Show. KTLA's Antenna TV feed covers-up Married...with Children with a rebroadcast of its 6pm newshour from the main channel, as KDOC holds the rights to MWC (ironically, KTTV had the rights to MWC for nearly 20 years up until a couple of years ago). And there's always Hallmark Movie Channel, which airs PM at 12 noon and 1p.

When did NBC stop using the "snake" id? Here's one from the historical back pocket, folks; does anybody have any earthly idea at what point the Peacock channel quit using the snake-like animated ID that closed out programs and led into station breaks? It was, of course, de riegur in the 1950s and 1960s, but by the time I can first remember watching, circa 1973, NBC had discontinued that in

favor of program promos, and I thought it funny that the other two networks still used their plain, unadorned IDs at the end of a show while NBC did not. Only on occasion after then did NBC use its traditional logo (usually after a news special) without a program promo, and that seldom up until the time of the change to the infamous abstract "N" in 1976. I have seen clips of shows as late as 1970 that still featured the snake, so my guess would be maybe the beginning of the 1971 season or so when NBC either phased it out or dropped it completely. Does anybody know for sure? That would solve a great mystery to me. According to this article, the "snake" ran until the end of 1975. http://pediaview.com/openpedia/NBC_logos#NBC_snake_logo_.281959.E2.80.931975.2 9 I remember reading, at the time, that before the logo was eliminated, the three-tone chimes that accompanied it were eliminated and replaced with a voiceover (late 1974?). I'll try to find an article that says that.

The first few "Saturday Night Live" episodes in the fall of 1975 used the snake logo at the end of the credits. If you have access to the DVD's or on-line you can see it for yourself. An episode of Tom Snyder's Tomorrow show from early 1975 used the snake in it's end credits. Well, it appears to me that my memory was mistaken. Either that, or the fact that I wasn't old enough to stay up late to see SNL or Tomorrow, accounts for my belief. From this, I can probably conjecture that NBC began phasing it out in daytime and primetime over a period of, say, two years from perhaps '72 to '74, since I recall seeing it precious few times--and the times I did see it, the snake was stationary within a square against a black background, with the announcer simply saying, "This is the NBC Television Network"-no chimes, no animation as in the past. According to the source MHB has provided, NBC ran the peacock opening for the last time on New Year's Eve 1975. That, I recall, was still used periodically when I first became aware of things in '73, particularly at the beginning of program blocks, namely The Today Show, the morning game shows at 10/9 CT, the afternoon lineup at 1:30/12:30 CT, and primetime. Of course, by that point, it was superfluous to remind people that the shows were in color, as almost all had been for nearly a decade--CBS and ABC had discontinued their "IN COLOR" notifications probably around '70 or so. The peacock was just simply a tradition people had come to expect, and I suspect NBC's faltering

Nielsens was the main motivating factor for them plucking the old boy's feathers, at least for a few years. The replacement for the "snake" became something of a joke: the stylized red-and-blue "N" which NBC acquired the rights to from the Nebraska public-TV network (their "N" was all red). I remember one night Johnny Carson said, "It's not NBC anymore. It's just 'N'". NBC tried a new peacock inside the "N" in the late '70s/early '80s, then settled on the peacock with six feathers that we see today. NBC just couldn't do anything right in the mid-'70s, could it?

Saturday Night Live also parodied the "N" with a "Dancing N" during Weekend Update around the 1977-78 season. Not sure the exact times that was used--just recalling what I saw on the classic SNL reruns that aired late night Saturdays on some NBC affils around 1999-2000; many of the original cast's seasons were repeated during that time. And "NBSee Us" (fall '78)--need I say more? (especially how SNL parodied that infamous campaign). Getting back to the peacock for a second: I also seem to remember that after the peacock was "eliminated" in favor of the "N" logo in 1976, they continued to use it on a minimal basis (once or twice per day?) just to maintain the trademark rights? I don't believe I ever saw the peacock on-air between 1976 and 1979. IIRC both the Peacock and the Snake were used on the Laugh-In reunion specials in the early 90's. Here are some related YouTube videos from '73-74... The Peacock as used in '74 -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p94v3DxtPU and (to a lesser extent) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGlqMxOq0ec "Chico and the Man" slide promo from '74; the snake logo appears to the right of "Friday" -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8OqWrDGAgo Game-show promo from early '74 (for the "Games for Great Lovers Week" stunt; the snake appears at the end -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kva00njTD7U

Friday prime-time promo from '73; the snake appears at the end (for "The Girl with Something Extra") -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdPUzx58zP8 "McMillan & Wife" promo from '73 (for the episode "The Devil You Say"); the snake appears at the end -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjH1VIO2NPY Also, those last two prominently include "In Color" mentions I overlooked it earlier, but here's a "Hec Ramsey"-era "Mystery Movie" open that incorporates the snake logo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHk5cGwuS6A. Also, here are some 1972 promos that include the snake (and that are similar in structure to the last couple in the previous post)... "Ghost Story"/"Banyon" (Friday) and "Emergency!"/"The Thomas Crown Affair" (on "Saturday Night at the Movies") -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHrNeTGsZms "McCloud" -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgn1IGAsTzo I overlooked it earlier, but here's a "Hec Ramsey"-era "Mystery Movie" open that incorporates the snake logo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHk5cGwuS6A Rare to see a complete Mystery Movie open with the "NBC Sunday Mystery Movie" title and snake logo at the end -- the ones for Columbo on YouTube were from syndicated copies, which used the Mystery Movie open, but edited the ending, for obvious reasons. Soap opera followed by a cartoon A recent posting of Spokane listings from November 7, 1985 got me to thinking: How many other examples have there been of a station running a cartoon immediately after the last soap of the day on their schedule. Here's that example posted this morning... KXLY Channel 4 Spokane (ABC) 2:00: General Hospital 3:00: The Flintstones I once read that WVII in Bangor, Maine ran a Japanese animated series immediately after The Edge of Night around late 1979. So... show me your other similar examples of an animated program coming on right at the tail end of the day's soaps as per the station running those toons. In markets that had had only 3 commercial stations consisting of NBC, ABC, and CBS

affiliates, running cartoons after soaps was pretty common on at least one of the stations. In Harrisburg, PA, 21 WHP TV preempted the 3 PM hour on CBS until Guiding Light took that slot by 1980. (maybe before). They ran cartoons and sitcoms between 3 and 6 PM weeknights prior to 1980. in many small markets syndicated cartoons ran in the midwest and rockies in the 3 PM hour on at least one network affiliate. Once markets got one or more independent stations, network affiliates running cartoons after soaps became less common and by the late 90's quite uncommon. Today no commercial stations runs any significant amount of weekday cartoons for children (though some run shows like Simpsons or Family Guy or King Of The Hill but they do not really count - MAYBE SOMEONE should try running thes etypes of cartoons in the 3-5 PM slot??) Used to happen all the time. 3 o'clock used to be the magic Witching Hour when kids returned home from school and Mom lost control of the TV. I remember here in Pittsburgh General Hospital used to back right into the Paul Shannon's Adventuretime cartoon show on WTAE-4. Similar things on other stations as well.

In Knoxville, WATE-TV (then NBC affliate) would show Popeye show every afternoon at 4 following "Another World" while WTVK-TV (then ABC) would show the Bozo the Clown for a few year, then the Flintstones a few years later and then Tom and Jerry and the Little Rascals after General Hospital until at least the mid to late 70s.

Not a soap opera, but on WEHT 25 Evansville [CBS], after Tattletales ended, they would show something called "Cartoon Carnival." This was 1977. -crainbebo WREX, the then-ABC affiliate in Rockford, Illinois, back in the mid-80s aired ScoobyDoo right after General Hospital. Of course, there was already an established independent station in place (WQRF, who eventually took the Fox affiliation by '89), and if I remember correctly, they were airing The Flintstones in that same 3pm slot. In the days when I was a child-late 50's-early 70's, it was common to have locally hosted children's programming directly after the afternoon soap operas. I remember the after-school specials which occasionally pre-empted local programming, but I am thinking that nowadays, television stations must run whatever programming that they are contractually obligated to run, so such pre-emptions are rarer now. Back when ABC aired the "After-School Specials", there were only three or four stations in alot of markets (usually ABC, NBC, CBS, and PBS affliates) and cable was not yet

available in most areas of the country, so it was a little easier to pre-empt a regular scheduled show than it is now. Most network affliates today are either showing talk shows (Dr. Phil, Dr. OZ, The Doctors, etc.) after the network programming today or are showing three or four hours of their local newscast, repeating the same handful of stories for the entire 3 or 4 hours. Used to happen all the time. 3 o'clock used to be the magic Witching Hour when kids returned home from school and Mom lost control of the TV. I remember here in Pittsburgh General Hospital used to back right into the Paul Shannon's Adventuretime cartoon show on WTAE-4. Similar things on other stations as well. That is so very true. But by the late 70's into the early 80's, WTAE-4 would run Tom & Jerry cartoons, as well as Mighty Mouse and Made-for-TV Popeye 'toons during the 3PM-4:30PM block, causing them to run General Hospital and Edge of Night from 9:30AM to 11AM one-day behind, after their old "AM Pittsburgh" local show. By the spring of 1982, GH returned to 3PM, and EON remained @ 10:30 AM until mid-summer of that year, when then-independent WPTT-22 picked up EON until the end of its run in December, 1984. Both WGHP and WLOS pre-empted "Edge Of Night" and ran Bugs Bunny cartoons after "General Hospital." Their NBC competitors, WXII (Winston-Salem) and WYFF (Greenville, SC) likewise ran Tom and Jerry after "Texas." And don't forget that WLOS pre-empted "One Life To Live" in its early years and carried "The Flintstones" between "General Hospital" and "Dark Shadows." I remember the after-school specials which occasionally pre-empted local programming, but I am thinking that nowadays, television stations must run whatever programming that they are contractually obligated to run, so such pre-emptions are rarer now. Back when ABC aired the "After-School Specials", there were only three or four stations in alot of markets (usually ABC, NBC, CBS, and PBS affliates) and cable was not yet available in most areas of the country, so it was a little easier to pre-empt a regular scheduled show than it is now. Most network affliates today are either showing talk shows (Dr. Phil, Dr. OZ, The Doctors, etc.) after the network programming today or are showing three or four hours of their local newscast, repeating the same handful of stories for the entire 3 or 4 hours. Yeah, back then, channel 6 in Paducah (for example) used to show reruns of Gilligan's Island and Brady Bunch every afternoon. Probably a lot easier for channel 6 to pre-empt those than whatever they are carrying in the afternoons now.

Plus, kids can get their entertainment from cable or online, YouTube, etc. When Fox and WB quit their afternoon cartoons that was IIRC because of cable and satellite taking over

kids entertainment [Nick, Disney, etc]. -crainbebo In markets that had had only 3 commercial stations consisting of NBC, ABC, and CBS affiliates, running cartoons after soaps was pretty common on at least one of the stations. In Harrisburg, PA, 21 WHP TV preempted the 3 PM hour on CBS until Guiding Light took that slot by 1980. (maybe before). WHP-21 never pre-empted the 3PM hour on CBS, at least not anytime in the mid to late '70s. They ran CBS in pattern until at least 4PM..Sometimes they ran the 4PM show at 1PM, but it was never pre-empted for kid shows, at least not from 3-4. They did run some cartoons after 4...

Back in the 1960-65 era in my home town (Rochester, NY) the "children's hours" were usually 4 to 6 PM after the kids got home and before the local news started at 6. On the NBC station (then WROC-TV) you got Popeye cartoons after the last network game show of the afternoon, which was usually Gene Rayburn's original Match Game. On the CBS affiliate, WHEC-TV, it was usually Bugs Bunny cartoons after the last game show. Finally on ABC affiliate WOKR, American Bandstand wrapped up and gave way to the Mickey Mouse Club at 5:00 followed by a dinner hour movie at 5:30 (they ran local news followed by a delayed broadcast of the network news between 7:00 and the start of network prime time programming at 7:30 for the first couple of years after they signed on in 1962) From the early 1970's through September 1978, Omaha's KMTV 3 followed NBC's Somerset and For Richer, For Poorer at 3:00 p.m. with either Warner Bros. cartoons (the program title was The World's Greatest Cartoons) or The Flintstones at 3:30 p.m. They would rotate on the schedule every few months. From June 1981 to March 1982, Omaha's KMTV 3 preempted NBC's Texas with Popeye cartoons at 2:30 p.m. and Warner Bros. cartoons (retitled Bugs Bunny and Friends) at 3:00 p.m. In September 1980, KETV 7 followed ABC's The Edge of Night at 3:00 p.m. with Tom and Jerry cartoons. Curiously, T&J replaced ABC's Ryan's Hope which was tape delayed from 11:30 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. (KETV started a midday newscast at 11:30 a.m. in January 1979). In markets that had had only 3 commercial stations consisting of NBC, ABC, and CBS affiliates, running cartoons after soaps was pretty common on at least one of the stations. In Harrisburg, PA, 21 WHP TV preempted the 3 PM hour on CBS until Guiding Light took that slot by 1980. (maybe before).

WHP-21 never pre-empted the 3PM hour on CBS, at least not anytime in the mid to late '70s. They ran the daytime lineup in pattern from 10AM-4PM with some exceptions....I have a June 1975 TVG in which, during the 4pm hour, "Musical Chairs" was not cleared, opting for episodes of "Ironside" instead. And, on occasion after 1978, the 4pm show was aired at 1pm (as that was the "local programming" period until Y&R expanded to an hour in 1980). They ran "The Flintstones" at 4:30pm in '78 (also, for a short time at 4:30, "Little Rascals"). The last cartoon to run daily on WHP was an hour of "Tom and Jerry" from 4:30-5:30 in the summer of 1980, succeeded by "Hour Magazine" in September. In upstate (Central) N. Y. I know WKTV-2 (NBC) ran Bozo at 4:00. WNYS (ABC now WSYR-9) ran Baron Daemon & his Buddies -great show at 4 or 4:30 and WSYR ( NBC now WSTM-3) had Denny Sullivan's Popeye's Funhouse at 5:00. I watched then all.

A recent posting of Spokane listings from November 7, 1985 got me to thinking: How many other examples have there been of a station running a cartoon immediately after the last soap of the day on their schedule. Here's that example posted this morning... KXLY Channel 4 Spokane (ABC) 2:00: General Hospital 3:00: The Flintstones I once read that WVII in Bangor, Maine ran a Japanese animated series immediately after The Edge of Night around late 1979. So... show me your other similar examples of an animated program coming on right at the tail end of the day's soaps as per the station running those toons. The Japanese animated series on WVII that you refer to was Star Blazers. It did indeed air after The Edge of Night. Until is was taken off the air and replaced with The Real McCoys. WCSH, channel 6, the NBC affiliate in Portland, ME, carried "The Flintstones" followed by "Scooby Doo" in the 3 pm hour for a short while in the 1980s. I believe "The Match Game/Hollywood Squares Hour" was pre-empted in favor of the cartoons which followed "Another World." Back in the 1960-65 era in my home town (Rochester, NY) the "children's hours" were usually 4 to 6 PM after the kids got home and before the local news started at 6. On the NBC station (then WROC-TV) you got Popeye cartoons after the last network game show of the afternoon, which was usually Gene Rayburn's original Match Game. On the CBS affiliate, WHEC-TV, it was usually Bugs Bunny cartoons after the last game show.

Finally on ABC affiliate WOKR, American Bandstand wrapped up and gave way to the Mickey Mouse Club at 5:00 followed by a dinner hour movie at 5:30 (they ran local news followed by a delayed broadcast of the network news between 7:00 and the start of network prime time programming at 7:30 for the first couple of years after they signed on in 1962) Two I remember from the 1966-68 era: "Cartoon Junction" followed "Secret Storm" on WNCT Greenville, NC (they had Warner Brothers cartoons), and "Bungles And His Friends" followed "Dark Shadows" on WVEC Norfolk (they picked up Terrytoons after CBS canceled "Mighty Mouse" in 1967). I also remember that in the same period you're referring to, WDBO (now WKMG) Orlando carried a local kids' show, "Uncle Walt's Adventures" (nothing to do with Disney) after "Edge Of Night" when it aired at 4:30; it was on from 5 to 5:30 followed by the Hanna-Barbera block (Huckleberry Hound, Yogi Bear, Quick Draw McGraw, etc.). On WFTV, "Popeye Playhouse" followed "American Bandstand" and led into ABC's news at 6. I remember at the time NBC affiliate WESH did not cater to kids from 5 to 6; they carried "Best Of Groucho" at 5 and "I Led Three Lives" at 5:30. In the Fall of 1978, WJAR-10 in Providence carried (via NBC) the soap opera "Another World" weekdays from 3 to 4 P.M. EDT/EST, and followed it at 4 P.M. with the cartoon adventure series "Battle Of The Planets". According to the October 11th, 1978 Boston Globe, WJAR then broadcast "Carol Burnett and Friends" (edited reruns of "Carol Burnett") at 4:30, "Mary Tyler Moore at 5, and "Odd Couple" at 5:30. Thus, "Battle" came on after a soap and prior to three sitcoms. Back then, Providence did not have an independent station, and the only station that carried an extended schedule of late-afternoon children's shows was noncommercial WSBE-36 (carrying PBS children's fare). (During the late 1970's and early 1980's, WJAR usually aired reruns of the original "Star Trek" on weekdays from 5 to 6 P.M. during the Summer months) Worst TV stations ever ...I kinda hate to say it, since they did run Bob Luce's pro wrestling show as a Mondaythru-Friday late nite Carson competitor in the mid-'70s, but WSNS/44 Chicago in its English-language incarnation of the late '70s-early '80s. The KCOP of the Windy City... Wow, really. We had only 4 stations in Peoria through 1981. Cable tv beamed in WGN 9 and WSNS 44 Chicago and as a kid I often found 44's shows to be more interesting to me. WSNS was replaced when they went to ONTV I think. WSNS's replacement WFLD

was good too. I was upset when we lost WFLD for TBS! I wasn't interested in high quality graphics and so on, just the programs I liked. I remember Bob Luce wrestling too.

Channel 68 must be somehow cursed; the station seems to have been nothing but a problem for the five owners the station has had (Boston Heritage Broadcasting 19781983; Arlington Communications 1983-87; Christian Science Monitor 1987-1993; Boston University 1993-1999, and Paxson Communications since 1999) in its history. I don't think they were cursed under Boston University - they had the Red Sox and picked up the CBS Morning News in the fading days of WHDH 7 as a CBS affiliate. Monitor TV seemed to be highly underfunded, however. My nomination would have to be WNDS-50 out of Derry New Hampshire. Christmas and holiday programming was a highlight - shows like "Magic of Christmas" with B-list stars, another with something about a trucker having to be home for Christmas Eve and stuff that looked like it was filmed with one camera in Branson. When they ran news the set had a plant on each side of a desk. Willdav713 repeats, "I would say Current-TV always makes my list of the Worst TV station!" We heard you the first time... And undoubtedly, given their declining ratings especially among 49-and-younger viewers, there are many who find Fox "News" at least equally unwatchable, ludicrously over-the-top in its partisanship, or both. But through most of this thread the discussion has been about local, OTA stations. If it said it many months ago, it is hard to keep track because I post on these boards really frequently since Radio and TV are some of my interests. Second, if this discussion was titled Worst OTA TV stations ever, I wouldn't have posted it since it is Cable TV station forced down my throat because A La Carte is like a dirty word to the cable companies. I would also include the Disney Channel of Today from 1995-on wards , because the Disney channel back then as subscription only was so much better. The OP was specific in their Subject. When the OP says TV stations, I assume anything that can be picked up on a Television (TV) channel. With that I add, Disney, TV Land, Nickelodeon, and Cartoon Network (now vs. first launch) to the list. Make that TV networks running on a station. No partisanship on those.

I don't live where WNDS (now WZMY) is, but as long as they had a weekly candlepin bowling show, I give WNDS a pass. And, its presentation wasn't half bad. cd Actually it's WBIN now (after new owner Bill Binnie). They brought Al Kaprilien back this week (he had been let go when then WZMY was LMAed at the start of 2010). I never watched the bowling show so I can't comment on it but I do know that their news set always looked years behind WMUR and the Boston stations. I remember in my elementary school days when after lunch outdoor recess was not held due to weather, we'd go back to the classroom, the Sister who taught us would roll out the relic black & white TV on a cart and we'd watch "Password" on WMUR, since it wasn't cleared on WCVB-5 at the time. (I think later at some point either WSBK-38 or then WKBG -56 cleared it in Boston) "Password" also had an educational component you might not even be aware of (which may be why your teacher turned it on during rainy-day recess): Seeing the "password" on the screen and hearing contestants and celebrities give one-word clues to the password's meaning to their teammates actually reinforced the veiwer's vocabulary. Many teachers, when giving students reviews of vocabularies prior to tests, actually would use the "Password" format, with students giving clues to vocabulary words to their teammates (and maybe a few still do). In fact, Milton Bradley (who for years published the "Password" box game) also issued an "educational" version for schools. Odd analog-era VHF adjacent pairings in markets The topic on this board about a signal on every available VHF channel prompted another thought: what are some examples of markets in the analog era with adjacent VHF signals NOT INCLUDING those where there was band space in between (channels 4 and 5 or channels 6 and 7). Discuss how this come about and how was it maintained to conform to FCC interference specs? Three examples of which I'm aware: Norfolk-Portsmouth-Newport News, VA-NC market (adjacent channels 2, 3, and 4): Norfolk-licensed CBS affiliate WTKR, channel 3 was joined in 2001 by Manteo, NClicensed independent WSKY on channel 4, though the two antenna sites were a good distance apart with WTKR at the market's traditional antenna farm at Driver, Va., while

WSKY's signal came from Powell's Point, NC. A few years later in a paper-only move to gain must-carry status, UNC-TV transmitter WUND, channel 2, licensed to Columbia, NC (in the Greenville-New Bern-Jacksonville, NC market) changed its city of license to Edenton, NC, technically making it the fifth VHF signal in Norfolk-Portsmouth-Newport News and giving the market adjacent channels 2, 3, and 4 (though the channel 2 transmitter, west of Columbia is even farther away from Driver than WSKY's Powell's Point site. Greenville-New Bern-Jacksonville, NC market (adjacent channels 7, 8, and 9) : The market's first station (1953) was Greenville CBS affiliate WNCT, channel 9, followed by Washington, NC-licensed NBC affiliate WITN, channel 7 (1955)--both even sharing the same tower at Grifton, NC by 1977. In 1989, the market got a new VHF on channel 8, Fox affiliate WFXI in Morehead City. This works, though because WFXI is located in far-eastern Carteret County, which juts out into the Atlantic Ocean and is a log ways from Grifton--so far, in fact, that the station had to sign on a UHF repeater in Greenville (WYDO, channel 14) to cover the market's core cities. El Dorado-Monroe, AR-LA market (adjacent channels 10, 11, 12, and 13: I'm not familiar with this market or its layout, so I'll defer to others for the inside story. However, El Dorado, AR-licensed NBC affiliate KTVE, channel 10, Columbia, LA-licensed ABC affiliate KAQY, channel 11, El Dorado-licensed Arkansas Educational TV/PBS station KETZ, channel 12, and Monroe-licensed Louisiana Public Broadcasting/PBS station KLTM, channel 13. The Phoenix market sprawled out to include most of the state of Arizona except the southern third, and as a result it included not only channels 3, 5, 8, 10 and 12 right in Phoenix but also signals on 2, 4, 9 and 13 in Flagstaff (two hours north), 11 in Holbrook (three hours northeast), 7 in Prescott (two hours northwest) and 6 in Kingman (three-plus hours northwest). Albuquerque, Denver and Salt Lake worked much the same way - 6/8/12 in Farmington/Durango against 5/7/11/13 in Albuquerque; 3 in Sterling against 2/4 in Denver; and Salt Lake City's market is so vast that it even included a co-channel pair, 4 in both St. George and Salt Lake itself. Moving back east, most of northern Michigan's all one big market, including WPBN 7 Traverse City, WGTQ 8 Sault Ste. Marie, WWTV 9 Cadillac and WWUP 10 Sault Ste. Marie. (The latter two even branded as "9&10" for many years.) Albuquerque, Denver and Salt Lake worked much the same way - 6/8/12 in Farmington/Durango against 5/7/11/13 in Albuquerque; 3 in Sterling against 2/4 in Denver; and Salt Lake City's market is so vast that it even included a co-channel pair, 4 in both St. George and Salt Lake itself. Albuquerque also had Channels 2 (KASA) and 4 (KOB-TV).

Which only matters in the context of this thread if there were a channel 3 somewhere in the vastness of the ABQ market, too...and I think KENW in Portales counts. (It's on either Dish or Direct serving all of the Albuquerque market...) Moving back east, most of northern Michigan's all one big market, including WPBN 7 Traverse City, WGTQ 8 Sault Ste. Marie, WWTV 9 Cadillac and WWUP 10 Sault Ste. Marie. (The latter two even branded as "9&10" for many years.) The Marquette market (the western and central parts of the UP) had WBKP Channel 5 in Calumet and WLUC-TV 6 in Marquette. In the '50s, before allocations were changed, Champaign IL had WCIA-TV Channel 3 and Springfield had a CP for WMAY-TV Channel 2. WMAY-TV never made it to air, and Springfield was made all-UHF, the FCC moving its Channel 2 allocation to St. Louis (swapped with 36, which WMAY got a CP for but never built AFAIK) and Terre Haute (WTWO beginning in 1965).

If you had a good antenna, you had 11 [KSTW], 12 [KVOS] and 13 [KCPQ]. KVOS is licensed to Bellingham and serves NW WA and BC, but its signal still makes it a ways South if you have a good antenna. 11 and 13 both licensed to Tacoma [has that changed? I don't think so] -crainbebo El Dorado-Monroe, AR-LA market (adjacent channels 10, 11, 12, and 13: I'm not familiar with this market or its layout, so I'll defer to others for the inside story. However, El Dorado, AR-licensed NBC affiliate KTVE, channel 10, Columbia, LA-licensed ABC affiliate KAQY, channel 11, El Dorado-licensed Arkansas Educational TV/PBS station KETZ, channel 12, and Monroe-licensed Louisiana Public Broadcasting/PBS station KLTM, channel 13. I don't think that KETZ ever operated on channel 12 analog. There would have been a cochannel interference issue with KSLA Shreveport, which is only about 80 miles from El Dorado. This may barely count, but the Duluth/Superior market had both WDIO on Channel 10 (for the immediate Twin Ports area) and KRII on Channel 11 (as an Iron Range semisatellite station for KBJR). KRII only signed on about a decade ago, but did exist in the analog era. Also, the poster-child for weird DMAs (Lincoln/Hastings/Kearney/Grand Island) qualifies: a Channel 3 (Lexington-licensed NET Television station KLNE); a Channel 4 (the defunct KSNB); a Channel 5 (Hastings-licensed KHAS); a Channel 6 (KHGI's Hayes Center-licensed satellite station, KWNB); a Channel 7 (Bassett-licensed NET

Television station KMNE); two Channel 8s (KLKN in Lincoln and McCook-licensed "KSN" outlet KSNK); a Channel 10 (KOLN in Lincoln); a Channel 11 (KOLN's Grand Island-licensed satellite station, KGIN); a Channel 12 (Lincoln-licensed NET Television station KUON); and a Channel 13 (Kearney-licensed KHGI). (I am going from Wikipedia, so a few of the details may be off. Also, I did update this post to include a few more.) The Portland, Oregon market at one time had both KATU 2 (ABC Portland) and KVDO 3 in Salem, 60 miles or so to the south but still very much within the market. KVDO was that rarest of things, a failed commercial VHF station, and the allocation ended up being moved way out to Bend after KVDO failed. Another failed V was channel 11 in Houma, Louisiana, which for a time operated adjacent to WYES-TV 12 in New Orleans. And there's another 11/12 pairing that existed for a bit in the Salt Lake City area, both educational stations: KBYU 11 Provo, to the south of SLC, and KUSU-TV 12 in Logan, way to the northeast of SLC. KBYU survived, but KUSU-TV did not. In what's essentially the current version of Twin Cities DMA (i.e., after the former Alexandria market was folded into it), there were two Channel 9s (KMSP in the metro and Lakeland Public Television's KAWE in Bemidji), a Channel 10 (Pioneer Public Television's KWCM in Appleton), a Channel 11 (KARE in the metro), and a Channel 12 (WCCO's Walker-licensed satellite station, KCCW). In the '50s, before allocations were changed, Champaign IL had WCIA-TV Channel 3 and Springfield had a CP for WMAY-TV Channel 2. WMAY-TV never made it to air, and Springfield was made all-UHF, the FCC moving its Channel 2 allocation to St. Louis (swapped with 36, which WMAY got a CP for but never built AFAIK) and Terre Haute (WTWO beginning in 1965). If the channel 2 CP here in Springfield had made the air, IMO it is likely they would have had to build their tower west of the city (most likely halfway between here and Jacksonville), rather than with most of the present Springfield-allocated stations at Mechanicsburg, IL, due to WCIA (and to some extent WBBM Chicago). This would have resulted in the east side of its Grade B signal not reaching far beyond Decatur, and perhaps the separation of Champaign and Springfield into separate markets--or perhaps combining the latter with Peoria (which originally had channel 8 before it was moved to Moline as WQAD, which signed on in 1963). Although Birmingham and Montgomery are about 90 miles apart, how about WSFA-12 in Montgomery and WVTM-13 in Birmingham? Likewise, about 90 miles apart, how about WTOK-11 in Meridian and WJTV-12 in Jackson?

There are plenty of 90-mile first-adjacent spacings in adjoining markets; it's more the norm than the exception, in fact. Here in Rochester NY, we had an 8 and 10 sandwiched between 7 in Buffalo (60 miles west) and 9 in Syracuse (70 miles east). (I've blessedly forgotten the old analog VHF spacing rules now that they don't matter anymore, but I suspect w9wi can weigh in on them - full spacing can't have been much more than 90 miles in even the least congested zone.) WKTV, Channel 2 in Utica, NY, was every bit as close or closer to its adjacent channel neighbor WSTM, Channel 3, in Syracuse. They may have barely made the minimum spacing for Zone I

What about if you were in Thompson, CT? It's the far northeast corner of the Hartford/New Haven DMA (and for the state of Connecticut). Head one town eastsoutheast and you're in northwestern RI and the Providence/New Bedford DMA. Head one town due north and you're in southern Worcester County, MA and the western portion of the Boston/Worcester DMA. Since these three TV markets touch, you'd get this: WGBH-TV (PBS) channel 2 Boston WFSB-TV (CBS) channel 3 Hartford WBZ-TV (CBS) channel 4 Boston WCVB-TV (ABC) channel 5 Boston WLNE-TV (ABC) channel 6 New Bedford WHDH-TV (NBC) channel 7 Boston WTNH-TV (ABC) channel 8 New Haven WMUR-TV (ABC) channel 9 Manchester, NH WJAR-TV (NBC) channel 10 Providence WENH-TV (PBS) channel 11 Durham, NH WPRI-TV (CBS) channel 12 Providence The stations in italics are further out from Thompson, CT, but are still parts of the affected DMAs. As for channel 13, the closest ones are in Portland, ME (WGME-TV), Albany, NY (WNYT-TV) and Newark, NJ (WNET-TV).

It's about 290 miles from St. George to Farnsworth Peak, and about another 90 miles to where KUTF Logan had its transmitter. Within that sprawling market, one could find, in the analog days, co-channel stations on channel 4 in Cedar City (about 60 mi. N of St. George) and Salt Lake City, and on channel 12 in St. George and Logan. In the digital age, there are no longer any co-channel full power stations in the market. There still exist spacing requirements for adjacent channel full power stations, but, if I remember correctly, the prohibition only applies to stations located between 20 km and

110 km apart, or 12 mi to 68 mi. Those are for Zone II, Western US. I don't know if the distances are the same for Zones I (NE US) and III (Gulf States). Adjacent channel stations are allowed if co-located, or within 12 miles of each other.

I always wondered about the spacing of NTSC channel 6 in New Bedford. Seemed pretty close to NTSC 5 in Boston.

KITTERY, MAINE TV CHANNEL LINEUPS FROM 1948 TO THE PRESENT

Hi, I'm sxld079 and i'm new here to this forum and for those of you who live in Kittery, Maine do any of you remember what the TV Channel lineup in the Kittery area was like from between 1948 and the present day, like say when did Kittery viewers first got WGBH-TV Channel 2 PBS In Boston? And When Did Kittery First Got Cable TV Like When It Was With Continental Cablevision Sometime In The 1980s like around that decade I don't know? I really hope anyone here still remembers what their TV channel lineup was like back in those days from pre-cable to cable providers in Kittery like Continental Cablevision, MediaOne Cable, AT&T Broadband, and the present day digital cable provider Comcast Cable, Leave me a comment if you come up with any you remember from the past and present, Thanks!

I once lived in Old Orchard Beach, ME. (Same county at least!) By market definition, Kittery is still part of the Portland/Poland Spring DMA. While I didn't have cable when I lived there from 1985-87, I do remember the spotty TV reception. Both Saco and O.O.B. were served by Continental Cablevision. When I made a visit to the town in 1989, I know that channels 4, 5, 7, 38 and 56 from Boston/Cambridge were on the lineup. Remember, this was before SYNDEX (syndicated exclusivity) took effect in 1990. CKSH-TV channel 9 from Sherbrooke, PQ Canada (French language) was on the lineup as well. That's because O.O.B. is a tourist mecca in the summer, with half of the tourists coming from Quebec. As for the 1940s, there were no Maine stations. WABI-TV (CBS) channel 5 of Bangor was the first station. That wasn't until 1953.

I do have an old New England TV Guide from the 1955. I notice that 6 WCSH-TV, 8 WMTW and 13 WGAN-TV are on the air by this point. But oddly WMTW and WGANTV would often air the same CBS shows at the same time. WMTW had affiliations with ABC and Dumont but only ran a few of their shows. I guess it would be a while before WMTW would become the Portland area ABC affiliate, as well as serving as the de facto ABC affilate for Burlington-Plattsburgh and Montreal till Burlington got Channel 22. Also I notice that Boston's Channel 5 had not signed on yet when this TV Guide was

published. Boston only had Channels 2 (Educ.), 4 (NBC) and 7 (CBS) in 1955. If you wanted to watch an ABC program, you had to pull in WMUR 9 from Manchester NH, which I guess served as Boston's ABC affiliate till Channel 5 eventually signed on. While Hartford and Springfield had UHF stations at this point, Boston and Portland still didn't.

I have a January 1955 New England edition TV Guide. Here's the channel listings: 4 - WBZ/Boston (NBC) 7 - WNAC/Boston (ABC/CBS/DuMont) 8 - WNHC/New Haven (ABC/CBS/DuMont/NBC) 8 - WMTW/Poland Springs (ABC/CBS/DuMont) 9 - WMUR/Manchester (ABC/DuMont) 10 - WJAR/Providence (ABC/CBS/DuMont/NBC) 18 - WGTH/Hartford (ABC/DuMont) 30 - WKNB/Hartford (ABC/CBS) 55 - WHYN/Springfield (CBS/DuMont) 56 - WTAO/Cambridge (ABC/DuMont) 61 - WWLP/Springfield (ABC/NBC) It would seem that WBZ, WNAC, WMTW and WMUR would be visible in Kittery. The other channels are either too far south/west and/or are upper UHF channels that were hard to get under the best of circumstances. WGBH would sign on later in the year. WCSH and WGAN were on but weren't listed (I have some TV Guides from later in 1955 and 1956 that do list those stations.) WNAC was primarily CBS but did clear some ABC programming out of pattern. The network knew that the chances that their programming being seen on WTAO was not good and hence they got to keep the secondary affiliation.

The old WTIC-TV channel 3 of Hartford wouldn't sign until September of 1957. Channel 18 of Hartford was our CBS affiliate before channel 3 was. As for Channel 30, they're actually licensed to New Britain, CT, but was common to have them as "Hartford" for reference. BTW, I think they've actually been a primary NBC affiliate since they signed on in 1953.

KML-224: Hartford/New Britain's Channel 30 has been an NBC affiliate for most of it's existence, but was a CBS affiliate for the first couple of years (1953-55) of it's existence. During it's CBS days, some of that network's top programs (like "I Love Lucy"??) were seen on WNHC-8 in New Haven; WNHC was a primary NBC affiliate prior to 1955

which also carried top ABC and CBS shows. Whatever CBS shows WNHC didn't pickup were on 30; channel 18 (then WGTH; later WHCT) carried whatever ABC shows WNHC didn't clear. In the Fall of 1955, Channel 30 got full-time NBC affiliation and WNHC (now WTNH) became primary ABC; CBS went to the old WHCT for three years, then to Channel 3 about a year after it went on the air (Channel 3 was in fact an independent for it's first few months on the air).

Thank you for the heads up! Silly me always thought channel 30 was NBC only! It has been in my lifetime anyways (I'm 41 years old). Now then, as Wikipedia puts it: Early years WVIT signed on for the first time on February 13, 1953 as WKNB-TV, a sister station to WKNB radio (840 AM, now WRYM). The calls stood for Kensington-New Britain. It is Connecticut's second-oldest television station, and the first on the UHF band. It has always been an NBC affiliate. However in the early years, it carried some CBS programming as well.

Folks, I actually just happend to come across an old Broadcasting Yearbook Book From 1981 That Talks About Cable TV Lineups In The USA, And They Even List Continental Cablevision Of Kittery, ME In The Book! And This Is What Their TV Channel Lineup Was Like Back In 1981: (1) Time/Weather (2A) WGBH (PBS) Boston (2B) WMEG (PBS) Biddelford (3) WSBK (IND) Boston (4) WBZ (NBC) Boston (5) WCVB (ABC) Boston (6) WCSH (NBC) Portland (7) WNAC (CBS) Boston ( WMTW (ABC) Poland Springs (9) WMUR (ABC) Manchester (10) WLVI (IND) Boston (11) WENH (PBS) Durham (12) WSMW (IND) Worcester (13) WGAN (CBS) Portland Channel G HBO Channel H Cinevue

long running shows without a true season finale

Shows that were unexpectedly cancelled or thought they would be picked up by another network, many of these went unnoticed (other than loyal fans) or unpromoted during the summer Family Matters, the producers expected to be picked up by another network after the low rated final season on CBS after moving from ABC, Step by Step did not have a true season finale either the last episode of Full House was mostly a clip show due to the lack of time to prepare for a true season finale after ABC cancelled them (the Olsen twins were driving up the cost of the show)

The Sopranos, in my mind, takes first prize when it comes to the worse finale of a TV show. Another show that comes to mind is "Who's the Boss"? 'Night Court' had a finale, but it was poorly executed; NBC had offered to continue the show another year, but with cast and budget cuts. Some of the characters were written out, although it seemed more like a another season-ending cliffhanger, with the sense that it might ne resolved at some point, than a farewell. Then they tacked on that ridiculous last scene of Bull abruptly teleporting to Jupiter... If I recall, "Less Than Perfect" with Sara Rue ran on ABC. It was cancelled, and I believe that ABC did not even burn off the last episodes. It also did not have a finale. It ran for 4 years with 81 episodes in the can. Have not seen it much in syndication.

I still get upset over the finale for St. Elsewhere. That ending ruined the entire series to me. I still think they need to do a real ending and this is 25 years after the show ended.

And on that note...'Benson' itself is one of the most notorious examples. The show ended in 1986, with a 'cliffhanger' of Benson and Governor Gatling, opponents in the gubernatorial election, watching TV together, with the episode9and series) ending just before the winner was about to be called. In fact, according to the tvseriesfinales.com site, had the show continued, Gatling would have won...but Benson would have been appointed as a senator, and moved to Washington DC, along with Kraus and Clayton. From there, the show would have been a lot more like its parent series, 'Soap', with a storyline involving a murder mystery where

all the victims were in the line of succession to the presidency. The 'real' finale was to have been a TV-movie in which Benson became President of the US.

The original WKRP was left with no real final episode, but then The New WKRP had ended with a cliffhanger where Donovan, the program director, was possibly killed in a plane crash. Since it was cancelled afterward there was no answer to what happened. The original WKRP had what could have been a cliffhanger(Mama Carlson changing the format), but they resolved it at the last minute(she changed her mind)...apparently just in case the show was cancelled(as it was, in the spring of '82). Maybe the producers hoped CBS would have a change of heart, like Mama Carlson!

I always thought that was a show that was cancelled before it's time. 'Mork and Mindy' almost fits the category; late in season 4, spring of 1982, there was a three-part episode involving Mork meeting a Venusian living on Earth(a pre-'Murphy Brown' Joe Regalbuto). To cut a long story short, he was a killer, and M & M timetraveled to the Stone Age to escape him. At the end of the episode, he had been defeated, and they were on their way...somewhere, sometime; the episode ended without telling us if they made it back...the final scene was presumably the cave they'd visited, only now in the present...with drawings of Mork and Mindy on the wall. ABC had planned that to be the season finale, before cancelling the series. The network decided to delay a different episode to the end of the season, so that the series could end with the characters in their usual setting. Maybe Season 5 would have opened with more time-travelling, but I guess we'll never know. The Jeffersons Archie Bunker's place

The final episode of the Wonder Years wasn't intended to be a series finale, just a season finale, the show was cancelled when the final episode was in production Alf ended with a cliffhanger, more about that in a TV movie

Sometimes the best finale, is a finale that isn't a finale in the usual sense at all. Cheers ended just the right way--after Sam decides NOT to leave Boston and go off with Diane, he returns to the bar, chills out at closing time with the other regulars, bids them good night, closes down for the evening, and tidies up the place for the next day's opening. Life

will clearly go on as usual there, we just won't see it on TV any more. (Ending a show that way not only puts a capper on things, it preserves the future watchability of reruns in syndication.) Other shows close with a big question mark. Take Cheers spinoff Frasier. At the end of the show, Frasier goes off to Chicago in search of his sudden love interest. But does he connect with her? Does she reciprocate his love? Does he find a new job at WLS or WGN that matches the one he left in Seattle? We never found out how it all worked out. Left room for a reunion special (maybe a TV movie) to tie up the loose ends, but it's anyone's guess if that film will ever be made.

While it can not be considered a long running show, it would have been nice if the producers of "Branded" would have ended the series by having the character of Jason McCord found innocent of the charges that got him kicked out of the army. "Lost In Space" should have had a series finale in which "our space travelers" either reached their destination (a planet orbiting Alpha Centauri) or return to Earth. But such a finale might have hurt syndication sales of the reruns. To me, while 'Night Court' was an example of the wrong way to leave things hanging, 'Frasier' did it perfectly; the rest of the cast had a satisying degree of 'closure', and as for Frasier, if it didn't work out in Chicago, it would probaby work out somewhere else. 'Cheers' actually mystified me when I first saw it, because the very last scene had someone knocking on the door and Sam saying 'We're closed!' I'd read a lot of the speculation that Sam was going to close the bar in the last episode, and so I thought that was how they were playing the scene. Later on, of course, the writers of 'Frasier', many of whom had written for 'Cheers', made it clear in the spinoff that the bar was alive and well...although this contradicted the intended meaning-or at least the very strong implication- of the 'Cheers' finale that the bar had shut down for good. (Actually, Sam's final line was a reprise of a scene from the very first episode, so it was a case of 'coming full circle'. However, when I saw the final episode, I'd never seen the premiere, so the context of that scene was lost on me.

"My Name Is Earl" is another. It ended on a cliffhanger on who the real father of Dodge is and we never found out (though it was hinted it was Earl). The Facts of Life ended with a backdoor pilot in which Blair buys Eastland.

Doogie Howser MD never had a true season finale It is interesting that ABC canceled "Mork & Mindy" in 1982 after the odd Jonathan Winters storyline. Robin Williams, however spent another season, 1982-1983, voicing the cartoon version of his character for ABC. Cindy Williams also provided Shirley's voice in the animated 'L & S' series, even as she left the prime-time version. Ron Howard and Donny Most had already voiced their characters for 'Fonz and the Happy Days Gang' in 1980...just as 'Richie and Ralph joined the Army and went to Greenland'. Sherwood Schwartz supposedly wanted to end 'Gilligan's Island' after four or five seasons(with different endings in each situation), but CBS killed the show after three years. Either the castaways would have been rescued and gone home)if season 4 was the end), or, in season 5, the castaways would have found a way off the island, then returned to open a hotel(Schwartz eventually used these ideas in the infamous late '70s reunion specials). Also, Schwartz planned to write Ginger out of the show, because Tina Louise wanted out after 3 years, anyway. One show which came up in a similar discussion on another thread, is the mid-60s adventure drama Run For Your Life. It starrd Ben Gazzara as a wealthy young lawyer who had been told he had an incurable disease--and decided to live to the fullest with whatever time he had left. He then became an adventure-seeking world traveller who encountered all manner of unusual people and situations. He had originally been told he had only a couple years to live, but the show lasted three seasons on NBC and almost was renewed for a fourth. But as a result of its late cancellation the producers never crafted a series finale. Ben Gazzara appeared on my daily talk show years later, and a caller asked him about how the show would have ended if it had gotten another season or two before going off the air...in particular, would Paul Bryan (Gazzara's character) have been cured at the end, or pass away? What Ben said surprised some people although it made perfect sense in the context of the YV business. He said no matter how long the show lasted, producers had decided Paul Bryan's fate would NEVER be resolved, he would keep travelling and keep living life to the max until the final frame of film with no real ending to his story. Gazzara said this was done to preserve the value of the show and maintain viewership following the network run if it went into syndication. Run For Your Life fell just a little short--88 episodes were produced during the show's lifetime, about a dozen short of the 100-episode library most syndicators deem necessary to make a show salable in syndication. But another year, or 10 years, wouldn't have made a difference--there STILL would never have been a real ending to the show or to the main character's story line.

Senate Watergate Hearings Coverage in 1973: Day-by-Day Breakdown of Networks One of the North Georgia postings in recent days by our friend bpatrick inquiring what network carried coverage of the Senate Watergate Hearings in the spring and summer of 1973 inspired me, via the Vanderbilt TV News Archive, to compile a listing of the days and the networks which alternated coverage. It reads as follows: (All times Eastern) Friday, May 18: both CBS and NBC--CBS (Nelson Benton & George Herman), 10 a.m. to 12:28 p.m. and 2 to 4:28 p.m.; NBC (Garrick Utley), 10 a.m. to 12:28 p.m. and 2 to 4:07 p.m. Tuesday, May 22: NBC (Garrick Utley), 10 a.m. to 12:53 p.m. Wednesday, May 23: both CBS and NBC--CBS (Nelson Benton & George Herman), 10 to 11:52 a.m. and 2 to 3:33 p.m.; NBC (Garrick Utley), 10 to 11:58 a.m. and 2 to 3:39 p.m. Thursday, May 24: both CBS and NBC--CBS (Nelson Benton & George Herman), 10 a.m. to 12:58 p.m. and 2 to 5:14 p.m.; NBC (Garrick Utley), 10 a.m. to 12:53 p.m. and 2 to 5:20 p.m. Tuesday, June 5: NBC (Edwin Newman), 10 to 11:58 a.m. and 2 to 4:40 p.m. Wednesday, June 6: CBS (Nelson Benton & George Herman), 10 to 11:58 a.m. and 2 to 4:28 p.m. Thursday, June 7: ABC (Frank Reynolds), 10 to 11:58 a.m. and 2 to 4:43 p.m. Tuesday, June 12: NBC (Edwin Newman), 10 a.m. to 12:05 p.m. and 2 to 4:34 p.m. Wednesday, June 13: CBS (Nelson Benton & George Herman), 10 a.m. to 12:28 p.m. and 2 to 4:28 p.m. Thursday, June 14: ABC (Frank Reynolds), 10 a.m. to 12:09 p.m. and 2 to 5:26 p.m. Monday, June 25: NBC (John Chancellor), 10 a.m. to 12:32 p.m. and 2 to 6:08 p.m. Tuesday, June 26: NBC (John Chancellor), 10 a.m. to 12:05 p.m. and 2 to 5:37 p.m. Wednesday, June 27: NBC (John Chancellor), 10 a.m. to 12:28 p.m. and 2 to 5:52 p.m. Thursday, June 28: NBC (John Chancellor), 10 a.m. to 12:28 p.m. and 2 to 5:32 p.m. Friday, June 29: NBC (John Chancellor), 10 a.m. to 12:01 p.m. and 2 to 5:58 p.m.

Tuesday, July 10: ABC (Frank Reynolds), 10 a.m. to 12:12 p.m. and 2 to 4:58 p.m. Wednesday, July 11: NBC (John Chancellor), 10 a.m. to 12:33 p.m. and 2 to 4:58 p.m. Thursday, July 12: CBS (Nelson Benton & George Herman), 10 to 11:58 a.m. and 2 to 4:58 p.m. Friday, July 13: ABC (Frank Reynolds), 10 a.m. to 12:28 p.m. and 2 to 4 p.m. Monday, July 16: NBC (anchor not given, if any), 10 to 11:42 a.m. Although the hearings continued for about a week or so afterward, the Vanderbilt TV News Archive apparently stopped recording live daily coverage at this point, perhaps due to a lack of funds for the extra videotape required in addition to its main job of recording the network evening newscasts. It is also possible that ABC also provided coverage during the first week in May, but the VTNA either opted not to record it or (probably) could not afford to do all three networks. The listing proves that coverage was not spread equally among the networks as previously believed and that NBC did the most, due primarily to the testimony of John Dean in the last week of June. To check it out yourself, just visit tvnews.vanderbilt.edu/tvn-month-select.pl? SID=20120711149627685&code=. The rest should be easy to find.

According to the TV listings pages of the Boston Globe for June 25th through 29th, 1973, ABC, CBS, and NBC all carried the hearings live all that week. That was the week that "star witness", former White House Chief Of Staff John dean testified. He was the witness who made the phrase "A Cancer On The Presidency" famous. Also, I believe ABC, CBS, and NBC all carried the hearings the first week, but after that, realizing that they'd go on for much of the Summer, agreed to rotate live coverage every third day, with the option for any network not assigned to cover that day's session to also broadcast live coverage if it was a "major name" witness (read: John Dean). In addition, many PBS stations carried each day's session on tape that evening. Among them were WGBH-2 here in Boston and WENH-11 in New Hampshire. A small handful of PBS stations (among them WGBH's sister WGNX-44) carried live coverage of the hearings every day they were held.

The second PBS station in Milwaukee (WMVT-36) also carried them on afternoon delay. I'm pretty sure the recordings in Vanderbilt's archives were made off-air from the

Nashville affiliates. Could be the local affiliates chose to stop carrying the hearings, leaving Vanderbilt nothing to record? -- I could maybe see the ABC station doing that -but it doesn't seem like something the NBC & CBS stations here would have done... No, w9wi, the local affiliates would not have had a choice in the matter. WSM, WLAC, or WSIX would have faced serious consequences from their respective networks (and possibly the FCC) had any of them declined to air the network feed for the duration of the day. Contracts were pretty explicit about news coverage; that's how things worked back then. No, the situation simply was that the VTNA simply ran out of extra tape due to a lack of funds and had to cut back on recording. I don't know that for certain, of course, but I'm fairly sure that's the explanation you would get from the management of the Archive today.

It's possible that in the early years of Vanderbilt's taping of TV newscasts that all three network newscasts did not go head-to-head in Music City in the same time period. For example, the ABC station in Nashville may have aired the network news at 5 P.M. CST/CST; while the CBS and NBC stations may have aired their respective network newscasts at 5:30 P.M. CST/CDT. As long as the no more than two of the three network evening newscasts went head-tohead, Vanderbilt didn't need more than two VTR's. It's probably true, Joseph, that all three networks did carry the Dean testimony. Like I said in my original post, this is only a listing of the recordings made by the Vanderbilt TV News Archive. The VTNA was supported at the time primarily by foundation grants and donors and almost certainly did not have the resources (equipment or tape, or both) to record every single instance of network time devoted to Watergate, but try it did. In fact, live coverage of a major news story was the only time the Archive made an exception to its policy (still largely in effect) of recording only newscasts. For instance, it has seldom recorded news magazines such as 60 Minutes, unless the subject matter was extraordinary and related to an ongoing event. As far as can be determined, the Archive did not record the PBS recap shown in the evenings after each day's proceedings. These the VTNA would have regarded as superfluous and therefore a waste of valuable resources. The small group of PBS affiliates you make reference to as having carried live coverage were probably part of what was then called the Eastern Educational Television Network, a consortium of ETV stations along the Eastern seaboard (now known as American Public Television, today the largest non-station source of PBS programming). Nashville's PBS station, WDCN (now WNPT), would not have been broadcasting that feed, and therefore, the VTNA could not have recorded it.

Joseph, you are absolutely correct. For most of the period from the Archive's beginning in August 1968 until ABC discontinued the practice of feeding the news to affils at 6/5 Central in 1982, WSIX, which became WNGE in December 1973 and is now known as WKRN, carried the 5 p.m. Central version of the ABC Evening News and World News Tonight. WSM/WSMV (NBC) and WLAC/WTVF (CBS) do as they do now, clearing their respective networks at 5:30. So your theory makes perfect sense--VTNA did not see the need for three recording machines, then extremely expensive pieces of equipment for a non-broadcasting entity to possess. By 1982, when WNGE by necessity had to move to 5:30 p.m., the Archives had by then instituted color recording and upgraded everything, thanks to substantially larger outside support. It could more than afford a third machine.

You have a great memory. All three networks carried live coverage of the first week. Complaints from soap-opera viewers, and probably the networks' own sales departments, prompted the rotation system, with any network allowed to televise any day or witness besides their rotation day. John Dean's five days of testimony received three-network coverage; so did, if I recall correctly, John Erlichman and H.R. Haldeman. Some network affiliates opted out after 4 p.m. Central, after the afternoon's "network time" was over. In my area, WMAQ-5 (NBC) did so in Chicago, while WTMJ-4 (NBC) in Milwaukee carried to conclusion most days. The PBS evening coverage was provided by WETA's NPACT, the National Public Affairs Center for Television. It was hosted by Jim Lehrer, the first time most viewers saw him. He introduced the morning session, had a "halftime" segment, then introduced the afternoon session. Replays often lasted until the wee hours of the morning. WETA saved its Watergate videotapes and used them for an anniversary special in 1993.

Some network affiliates opted out after 4 p.m. Central, after the afternoon's "network time" was over. In my area, WMAQ-5 (NBC) did so in Chicago, while WTMJ-4 (NBC) in Milwaukee carried to conclusion most days. It's interesting that an O&O (WMAQ) would've been allowed to leave its network's coverage early. That's what I thought every time I fiddled with the rabbit ears to pull in Channel 4.

I've brought this up before, but I can remember that the Watergate hearings really fouled up the schedules for game shows, especially ones with celebrity guests that would be on for the entire week. Where they would normally be on Monday through Friday, the hearings caused them to change guests in the middle of the week. I think that there were also jokes made about the schedules being screwed up on Match Game.

I've wondered if the Watergate hearings were a factor in some stations starting to get worse about pre-empting network daytime shows for syndicated programming. ...although, in WTMJ-TV's case, they were co-owned with the two biggest newspapers in Wisconsin, the Milwaukee Journal and the Milwaukee Sentinel, and consequently were expected to make whatever concessions to news coverage that they could. I am curious as to how many days the NBC Watergate Hearings coverage played havoc with WTMJTV's scheduled 90-minute airings of The Merv Griffin Show each weekday at 3:30 PM... Friends, if it is the case that WMAQ, an NBC O&O, was allowed to depart coverage before the network feed ended in the late afternoon, then why did neither WTMJ in Milwaukee or WSM in Nashville, on which station the Vanderbilt recordings were obtained, do so? While I want to believe tvnut's story and am sure he remembers correctly, it just doesn't make sense given the nature of the business at the time and the FCC's much stronger hands on local station requirements to serve the public in addition to pursuing a profit (ostensibly the rationale for WMAQ going to local programming in late afternoon). Wouldn't NBC brass at 30 Rock in New York have raised hell about that, since the FCC eyes were probably strongest on network O&Os, which were after all, in the largest markets and affected a good percentage of the national audience? And if WMAQ could get away with it, why not the others: WNBC, KNBC, WKYC, and even the station where it mattered most, Washington's WRC? There's something to this that just doesn't add up, in my estimation.

Was it necessarily seen as in the public interest for a station to pre-empt its childrens' programming in favor of Watergate coverage? (remember, at the time network affiliates often ran cartoons in late afternoon, and they were often interspersed with local hosts who imparted educational information between cartoons. Whether WTMJ participated I can't remember, and whether WMAQ and WSM did I have no idea.) While I was way too young to remember, isn't it possible some in the Republican Party might not have considered broadcast of the Watergate hearings to be in the public interest? On further thinking.. I seem to recall the broadcasts on WMVT-36 were *live*, not recorded. The station didn't normally sign on until prime time, I remember it being unusual to find both UHF stations on the air when I got home from school. Which makes it a bit more interesting that WTMJ would stick with the coverage all the way through, if another station was doing the same thing every day.

Concerning kid's shows being pre-empted for government hearings, something worse I can remember happening was during the Senate hearings for Clarence Thomas being nominated for the Supreme Court, when Anita Hill testified against him and made her

accusations, part of which was on a Saturday morning, and pre-empted kid's shows on the big 3 networks. I wasn't married or a parent at the time but to me this was totally inexcusable. WSM did carry the entire proceedings. The Vanderbilt Archives' holdings prove that. If you will notice, frequently the coverage lasted well into so-called "fringe" time, between 4:30 and 6:30 p.m. Eastern (3:30 to 5:30 to Central). If WSM wanted to opt out of coverage, it would have done so at 4:30/3:30, much like tvnut claims WMAQ did. Instead, you will notice on almost all the listings except one that the coverage ended in the midst of programming blocks, not on the half hours (think "We now return to our regular scheduled programming, already in progress"). Otherwise, the station(s) would have therefore had to cut off anchors and reporters in the midst of sentences, something that would have made viewers irate in the extreme, some of whom might be motivated enough to file complaints to the FCC against the station(s). Again, we must remember that the regulatory strength of the Feds was vastly stronger than is the case now-broadcasters weren't just concerned to please advertisers alone, but also a government that demanded news as an essential part of public service, and particularly in a situation like this that many Americans, regardless of political affiliation, regarded as a grave threat to the Republic. Now, as for your argument that the need to inform the public must be balanced against the FCC's mandate that children's needs be attended to, by 1973 things had changed dramatically in that regard. Local kiddie shows had largely left afternoon schedules by this point, having either moved to Saturdays only or dropped altogether. Cartoons were still running on many stations, to be sure, but they were almost entirely unhosted, off a film chain. Most of the other schedule filler between the end of network daytime and the evening news was reruns of family-friendly 1960s-era sitcoms such as Bewitched, Gilligan's Island, and, of course, The Andy Griffith Show (RIP). Even with that taken into consideration, public officials (the FCC included) and "do-gooder" activists were heavily promoting the afternoon shows on PBS stations for especially younger children to watch, instead of what they considered visual "junk food" that most commercial stations offered in those timeslots (the only alternatives back then were movies and Merv Griffin or Mike Douglas' adult-oriented talkfests). So your case is not really that strong for a station to cut the network connection in order to go to the regular afternoon fare--in any case, it wouldn't be losing all that much money anyway if it stayed with network coverage, as the late afternoons were often the lowest-rated dayparts and brought in the least advertising, perhaps only a small fraction of prime time. Further, all of this is the primary reason the networks agreed to rotate coverage for at least part of the time, to lessen the impact of lost ad revenues on both the networks and local stations. As for your comment that Republicans would not have found network coverage of the proceedings to serve the public, that's nothing more than a case of reading into history our present-day political animosities. Sure, Nixon and the Administration didn't like it. Sure, the Republicans in Congress would have done everything they could to prevent it. But if the atmosphere that prevails now on Capitol Hill and in the White House had carried the day then, there would have been no Watergate hearings to start with. Besides,

network news departments had a much stronger firewall than today against pressure from their employers and the Government to curtail news reporting unfavorable to a particular party (that has pretty much gone by the wayside now, swept away by the triumph of cable news and the Internet and the fiercely competitive media world). If the FCC had become aware of such attempts at censorship, it would have strongly warned the networks and broadcasters not to comply, for fear of violating things like the Fairness Doctrine, which was abolished in 1987. From another perspective, it would have amounted to political suicide for a Republican legislator to come out publicly against the networks carrying the hearings (While this may sound overly political, Vice-President Agnew and Press Secretary Ron Ziegler had already cried wolf far too many times against supposed ideological bias and slanted reporting on the networks' part; many Americans, even conservatives, had tuned them out by this time). Whatever we think about the matter today, the consensus among broadcasters, the public, and even advertisers was that broadcasting the proceedings took precedence over all political and economic considerations. We were, in other words, a far less cynical, more respectful society than is even possible nowadays. Let me throw it out to others: what are your memories, if any, of how your local station handled the Watergate hearings (no PBS, please, since we've established its part in things)? The PBS evening coverage was provided by WETA's NPACT, the National Public Affairs Center for Television. It was hosted by Jim Lehrer, the first time most viewers saw him. He introduced the morning session, had a "halftime" segment, then introduced the afternoon session. Replays often lasted until the wee hours of the morning. WETA saved its Watergate videotapes and used them for an anniversary special in 1993. Lehrer's co-anchor was Robert MacNeil, a former NBC News correspondent who has also done some work for PBS. That pairing led to the creation of what is now the "PBS Newshour" in 1975 (don't need to go through the show's evolution). In Alaska and Hawaii, I think the hearings were on a one- to two-day delay.

Was it necessarily seen as in the public interest for a station to pre-empt its childrens' programming in favor of Watergate coverage? (remember, at the time network affiliates often ran cartoons in late afternoon, and they were often interspersed with local hosts who imparted educational information between cartoons. Whether WTMJ participated I can't remember, and whether WMAQ and WSM did I have no idea.) I would not call cartoons in general children's programming just as I would not call liveaction programs adults' programming.

Concerning kid's shows being pre-empted for government hearings, something worse I

can remember happening was during the Senate hearings for Clarence Thomas being nominated for the Supreme Court, when Anita Hill testified against him and made her accusations, part of which was on a Saturday morning, and pre-empted kid's shows on the big 3 networks. I wasn't married or a parent at the time but to me this was totally inexcusable. I would not generally call the Saturday morning programs at the time (or any other time) kids' shows. They may have appealed to advertisers, but the programs most likely appealed to others beyond the demographics targeted by advertisers.

JohnnyA2K6: Could the "pool" feed of John Dean's testimony have been put up on a satellite for downlink by Alaskan and Hawaiian TV stations, given how big a news story it was??

A comment on the networks' changed attitude toward news between 1954 and 1973: in '73 ABC, CBS, and NBC all carried the Ervin committee hearings (even if most days they rotated coverage) and PBS replayed them in primetime. In 1954 only ABC and DuMont, with little or no daytime programming, carried the McCarthy hearings; neither CBS nor NBC felt it worth it to pre-empt their soaps and other daytime shows. And I wonder if any of them showed the Kefauver hearings into organized crime in 1951. From what I remember about the Kefauver hearings, it was a local TV station - WPIX Channel 11 in New York - that originated such coverage (indeed, it helped make the then three-year-old station's reputation), and some other stations across the country carried what Channel 11 emanated.

In our house, the Senate Watergate Committee Hearings re-play on PBS was THE #1 prime-time show. Our whole family, which included college aged-kids, was glued to it. I've also collected all the novelty/comedy records that came out during that time. "Haldeman, Erhlichman, Mitchell and Dean", a barbershop quartet record by "The Creep"- as in Committee to Re-Elect the President" got the most airplay. "The Nixorcist" while being a little overwrought had some funny lines, such as the Nixon character yelling at the excorcist... "Peace with honor, peace with honor, I'll give you a piece with honor!"

Weeknight Carson on one station, Weekend Carson on another?

...we've discussed the examples where The Tonight Show would be carried by stations other than the market's primary NBC affiliate, or where Tomorrow with Tom Snyder and/or Saturday Night Live would appear on independent stations where the NBC affiliate wouldn't carry them. But the idea just struck me -- have there been any instances of where The Weekend Tonight Show reruns would appear on secondary NBC affiliates or independent stations when the primary NBC affiliate, which did air the weeknight editions, rejected it?... Happened in Birmingham during that period in the late '60s when WAPI (WVTM)/13 and WBMG (WIAT)/42 split CBS and NBC. Carson aired on weeknights on 42 and on Saturday nights on 13. I believe that ever since it became the NBC affiliate for Salt Lake City some fifteen or so years ago, KSL-5 in Salt Lake City hasn't carried "Saturday Night Live". It may be the only primary NBC affiliate not to do so. Currently, it's seen there on CW affiliate KUCW-30. Could the reason that KSL doesn't run SNL is that the station is owned by the Mormon Church? Correct -- because of that, KSL passes on anything they find objectable to another station, usually KUCW. I believe KIRO-TV in Seattle, when it was owned by the Mormon-owned Bonneville (the owners of KSL) also bumped shows that weren't compatible with the Mormon faith.

Virgin Islands TV in the '70s So far, there have been two U.S. Virgin Islands TV schedules from the late 1970's posted on here, and unlike Alaska at the time, they were very dire. For one thing...WBNB never aired Walter Cronkite; they could've had the tape flown in from Miami for late night broadcast. And speaking of Miami, I'm certain WBNB and WSVI may have gotten their shows from WTVJ and WPLG on a one-week delay. In the case of morning shows, no Captain Kangaroo or Good Morning America, which explains their 4:00 sign-on times. But what about NBC? How did the USVI get their Johnny Carson/Saturday Night Live fix (since they were the only things worth watching on NBC back then)?

USVI is three small islands in the middle of the Caribbean. In the 1970s, the population of the whole territory was less than 100,000; with a much lower per capita income than the mainland. The TV stations probably came on at 4pm because they couldn't afford to come on any earlier. I doubt there was any money in the budget for flying in tapes of Cronkite. The islanders probably didn't even know who Cronkite was, or cared. Probably didn't know who Johnny Carson was, either. The islands have their own culture... they don't really have that much in common with the rest of the U.S. WSVI was sold last year for $350K, less than most small market radio stations. It's not a very good advertising market for radio or TV. As for the "Dallas" episode when we found out who shot J.R.? I'm guessing that even though it was seen on the same day all over the country (including Hawaii and Anchorage, Alaska; Fairbanks for some reason would see it the following Friday), WBNB probably made an arrangement with WTVJ to tape the episode and fly it down there for next-day airing. Am I correct in assuming that the British Virgin Islands operated on the British TV standard? Or did both the BVI and USVI share a standard so they could all watch the same television? If Wikipedia is to be believed, they only have (or had) one station -- ZBTV channel 5: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZBTV Also, NTSC is used in the British Virgin Islands -- especially considering that most people get their TV from the US and Canada, as well as nearby USVI. For the record, Caribbean islands controlled by Britain (including Bermuda) and the Netherlands also use NTSC, as opposed to PAL back in Europe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC Sorry that this little factoid doesn't have much in common with this topic, other than being an island and using mostly American TV...Bermuda has several US network affiliates. Problem is, being in the Atlantic time zone, prime time is from 9 PM to midnight. THEN...they have late local news! I just thought this didn't deserve its own topic...

Of course, today, with satellite technology, it's possible

for the Hamilton stations to get live feeds from New York, even though the schedules look a bit strange to those of us on the mainland: network news at 7:30 (we haven't had that since the early days of network TV) and, as mentioned, a 9-midnight primetime. But what would the alternative be? Bermuda is four hours behind England; a BBC program airing in London at 8 PM would air at 4 PM in Hamilton. Possibly the CBC, with its clock-time schedule for all the provinces except Newfoundland (with its half-hour offset). But the Hamilton stations are affiliated with U.S. networks (ABC7, CBS9, NBC11), so the U.S. schedules are what they see. I know this thread is about the Virgin Islands in the '70s, but let me back up a bit to 1967: the finale of "The Fugitive" was shown the same day (August 29, the day the running stopped) everywhere in the world where the show aired; I wonder if the USVI saw that episode that night. There is a new TV station in the BVI called CBN (Caribbean Broadcast Network, www.cbnbvi.com ), which I believe was told by them that they have the analog ch 5 (formerly ZBTV) facilities, but at this time they are cable only. Whether they will ever actually activate the ch 5, especially in analog, remains to be seen. IMO it wouldn't make much financial sense. I was in the USVI in summer 2004, and brought a TV & antenna to DX....the only ch 5's at that time were two translators of other stations. I was also told even then by someone at WTJX 12 that ZBTV was history. cd Heading into the modern age, it seems that WSVI's website is severely out of date, as it was not updated since February 2011 (the Oscars ad on that site refers to Sunday, February 27, which was last year). Hopefully, the new owners would breathe new life into that station: http://www.wsvi.tv/

WSVI is still putting their newscasts on YouTube. The most recent I found was a week ago: http://youtu.be/Ke8z26JL2TQ Yes, Wes Small is still their reporter.

EXTRA STATIONS RECEIVED WITH EARLY 70'S BASIC CABLE

Canada doesn't have CB anymore? What about CBET Windsor? Canada never had CB officially, it's always belonged to Chile. Apparently they had some kind of arrangement with Chile -- certainly there's not much chance of anyone mistaking a CBC station (either official language) for a Chilean station or vice-versa. In any case, call letters are MUCH less important for broadcasters in most other countries.

I've been on the info boards for quite a while now, but only recently started exploring this particular board. It's quickly becoming one of my favorites. I wasn't going to resurrect this thread, until I saw the post about the Elmira cable system. I grew up in Bath, NY in the 1980s. Here is the lineup offered to subscribers of Bath Television and Service Co-op Inc. at that time. 2. WENY, Elmira (ABC) 3. WETM Elmira (NBC) 4. WIVB Buffalo (CBS) 5. WPIX New York (Ind) 6. WOR New York (Ind) 7. WKBW Buffalo (ABC) 8. WROC Rochester (NBC) 9. WSKG Binghamton (PBS) (The signal was actually taken from a local translator, W60AD) Before that, the company attempted to receive NET/PBS programming from WXXI in Rochester, but reception was always problematic. 10. WHEC Rochester (CBS) 11. ESPN 12. WNEW New York (Ind) 13. CNN In addition, one could also pay extra for HBO. In that case, you were issued a special set top box with push buttons for channels 14 to 22. HBO was on 22, while all other channels were blank. Clearly, they had plans for expanded offerings, eventually. Later, Cinemax appeard on channel 21, and The Disney Channel on 20. The rest of the slots would remain empty until 1988 when they were filled with the following: 14. MTV 15. WTBS 16. TNN 17. WGN 18. USA Network 19. Public Access (with audio from the local radio station, WVIN) This was the second attempt by Bath TV to put TNN on the system. In 1986, they removed WIVB from the lineup, citing OTA reception issues. TNN was its replacement.

There was such an outcry over this change, however, that WIVB was put back on the system after a very short time. Eventually, though, WIVB was taken off the system in the early 90s, and replaced by the CBN Family Channel. Again, there were protests, but the management at Bath TV made it quite clear that they were standing firm this time around. As time passed, other out-of-market network affiliates would be dropped to make room for more cable offerings. This continued right up until Bath TV sold out to Time Warner in 2004. They were the last system in the area to sell out, I believe. I'm always looking to learn more about local broadcast history. I am extremely curious as to what the cable lineup in Bath, NY looked like before 1980 (which I am assuming was the year both ESPN and CNN were added). What stations were sacrificed to make room for these new offerings? I was told by a relative several years ago that WOKR (13, Rochester, ABC) was carried in Bath at one point, but I never got confirmation of this. If anyone has any ideas as to where I could find an old channel guide/listing for this system, please post your suggestions here.

Canada doesn't have CB anymore? What about CBET Windsor? Canada never had CB officially, it's always belonged to Chile. Apparently they had some kind of arrangement with Chile -- certainly there's not much chance of anyone mistaking a CBC station (either official language) for a Chilean station or vice-versa. In any case, call letters are MUCH less important for broadcasters in most other countries. If you've ever seen actual broadcast callsigns from Chile, they don't resemble CBC's callsigns at all. Chile uses CB + numbers, such as CB12. A number of South American countries use this format, or three letters plus three numbers. Oak Ridge, TN circa 1977: Channel 2: WSJK-TV Sneedville, TN PBS Channel 3: WRCB-TV Chattanooga, TN NBC Channel 4: Home Box Office Channel 5: WLOS-TV Asheville, NC ABC Channel 6: WATE TV NBC Channel 7: WTCG TV Atlanta, GA Independent Channel 8: Public Access Channel 9 WTVC-TV Chattanooga, TN Channel 10 WBIR-TV CBS Knoxville, TN Channel 11: WTVK-TV Knoxville, TN ABC Channel 12: WDEF-TV Chattanooga, TN

Cable System was Oak Ridge Cablevision (now Comcast) Stations that carried both Arsenio and Pat Sajak During the time when CBS had "The Pat Sajak Show", were there any CBS affiliates that carried both that and the more-successful "Arsenio Hall Show"? Toronto's CFMT carried both series, with Arsenio at 11 and Pat on a delay at 12 Midnight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYLtY9Q9EmE&feature=share WBBM in Chicago did. With Pat at 10:30 and Arsenio afterwards. Fox affiliate WMSN in Madison carried both (Arsenio at 10:00, followed by Pat at 11:00); that was because CBS affiliate WISC didn't clear Pat's show.

RELIGIOUS STATIONS THAT ALSO CARRIED MANY REGULAR PROGRAMS

Probably are a lot of these but the only one I am familiar with is the old WHAE (Heaven And Earth) 46 in Atlanta. The Munsters, Leave It To Beaver, Addams Family and many others were on there. tid bits from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WGCL-TV on the air 6-6-71 WHAE (about 8 hours a day) 1976 station expands to a 20 hour broadcast day 1984 bought by Tribune becomes WGNX......and less religious was slated to become the new WB in January 1995 but on Dec. 11, 1994 WAGA 5 becomes FOX, WGNX 46 gets CBS 1996 bought by Meredith Broadcasting.......becomes WGCL WGCL is now the largest market CBS station not owned by the network

You forgot about 1977, when WHAE became WANX, whose calls meant "Atlanta IN Christ (X)". Tribune's purchase of the station in 1984 and change of calls to WGNX was both a nod to the station's new owners (WGN Chicago was Tribune's flagship) and its past history under CBN (the "NX" part).

Religious independent KNCL in St. Louis use to air Fox Kids for a while in the 90's along with a few classic shows. It was also a secondary affiliate for UPN but most of their shows were not aired. The station was actually "KNLC". The station got the Fox Kids affiliation, as KTVI did not want the affiliation (like the other New World stations), and the only other indy in town at the time, KPLR, was about to pick up The WB. However, as station owner Larry Rice refused to show any local ads during the block, he filled them instead with religious messages, especially those featuring subjects that kids should not hear, like abortion. Fox then thought that giving Fox Kids to a right-wing Christian station was a bad idea, so he talked KTVI into picking it up in 1996. KNLC's relationship with UPN was also disastrous, as Reverend Rice refused to clear most of its programming, as he felt those shows were offensive. In 1998, KPLR picked up UPN as a secondary to The WB, but it was not until WRBU signed on in 2002 that St. Louis got their own UPN outlet. As brought up in my previous thread, KJNP (North Pole/Fairbanks) used to air INN News before KTVF picked it up.

KYFC 50 in Kansas City aired reruns of Little House on the Prairie and the Flintstones When Pat Robertson owned TV stations, he aired family friendly programming on it, but nothing with ghosts (no Casper)

Unless you're thinking of later, in the '70s Ted Turner had "Leave It To Beaver" (one of his personal favorites), "The Munsters," and "The Addams Family." Ch. 46 did have "The Dick Van Dyke Show" after it ran its course on 11 Alive, and even though I normally wouldn't have touched 46 with the proverbial ten-foot pole, I never went to bed until I watched "Best Of Groucho" and "The Honeymooners" from 11 PM-12 M. Pat Robertson did add more secular programs on all his stations, including a Saturdayafternoon block of Westerns such as "Bonanza" and "Big Valley." Then there were a few, which come up frequently in my retros, such as Ch. 14 in Hickory, NC, and Ch. 61 in Chattanooga, which weren't sure what they were, airing not only religious programs but movies, cartoons, and really old stuff like "Peter Gunn."

One of the LeSea stations was WHFT 45 in Miami, before TBN purchased it. It ran from around 1975-79.

cd

KPAZ-TV channel 21 in Phoenix aired a mix of secular and sacred programming between 1970 and 1977. It was owned by a local church at the time. By 1977, the station was in deep debt, and Paul Crouch came in and bought it, making it his first station outside of KTBN.

27 WYAH Norfolk/Portsmouth/Newport News from 1972 on was more a conventional independent station than religious. Weekdays and Saturdays they carried mostly secular shows...in fact they carried less religious shows than many secular owned independents. Only Sundays were they all religious and even that changed in 1980 when on Sundays that September they were secular noon to 3 OM by October of 80 they were secular 1030 AM to 330 PM; By 1981 they were secular 1030 AM to 7 PM which was as much as many secular indies. Also the other CBN stations were like this. 46 WANX was secular most of their broadcast day from about 1974 on in Atlanta. 39 KXTX was also secular by the late 70's 630 to 9 AM; Noon to 10 PM; and 1130 to 2 AM weekdays; secular all day Saturday and all religious Sunday till 1980 ehen they too were secular 1030 to 8 PM. In Boston 25 WXNE initially signed on at 10 AM and was religious about half the day weekdays, a couple hours Saturdays, and all religious Sunday. Their schedule of secular shows was very weak initially but gradually as better shows fell off other stations, WXNE picked them up. By 1982, WXNE was secular 630 to 9 AM; Noon to 10 PM; and 1030 PM to 2 AM. Saturdays they were secular all day and Sundays Secular from 1030 to 7 PM. By 1985 they even ended religious shows 8 AM sundays and returned to religious at 8 PM. So I would not count CBN stations as religious formats. They were actually general entertainment independents. CBN Cable was a religious general entertainment hybrid. They were all Christian till late in 1981. At that point they were Christian 5 to 7 AM; 9 AM to Noon; 3 to 4 PM; 9 to 11 PM; 2 to 4 AM. They clearly had more religion than their broadcast stations in the early 80's. Sunday they were religious till 11 AM and back to religion at 7 PM. Their entertainment shows were health related, educational kids shows, westerns, and very old sitcoms that fell off local broadcast stations in syndication in most cases by 1970. Anything newer than the early 60's was primary family drama shows focusing on pets like Lassie and Flipper and Gentle Ben and Fury. They also carried game show reruns at some point as well in the early to late 80's. In the late 80's they cut back religious shows and added some cartoons that were not in syndication and more family drama shows and pulled back on very old sitcoms and even

westerns. KYFC 50 in Kansas City aired reruns of Little House on the Prairie and the Flintstones When Pat Robertson owned TV stations, he aired family friendly programming on it, but nothing with ghosts (no Casper) Actually from about 1973 to 1977, WYAH TV 27 had Casper. But they never had Bewitched or Jeannie though. Ironically today, KTV which is a Christian TV Network for kids has secular cartoons several hours a day and has Casper under the title Harveytoons. They run edited episodes of Casper and others under that banner. They do not run the Casper The Friendly Ghost theme song but the instrumental openings on all the casper cartoons.

Religious WTLW/44 Lima OH carries secular programming, and is BIG into local high school sports.

WPCB-40, Greensburg-Pittsburgh, has had its share of non-religious programming. Even some of its productions draw secular viewers. "At Home's" Arlene Williams had among its fans Robert Bianco, now of USA Today, who told readers in the Pittsburgh PostGazette in 1994 that he worships Williams. "All right, 'worships' may not be quite the word when dealing with Christian TV," he went on, "but you get the idea. Mr. TV (a Bianco PG alter-ego) loves Williams' downhome approach." "At Home" still can be seen regularly on Channel 40. On weekends syndicated fare with such hosts as Babe Winkerman and P. Allen Smith is regularly plugged in amid religious programs. Yes Family Channel when sold to Fox and again to Disney/ABC had to keep triple runs of 700 Club. Now about 61 WRIP/WDSI - Technically they were not a religious station. They were technically a low budget independent. They started out with an ambitious Movie format but when financially failing in 1973 they were sold to an owner that needed to turn a profit so they opted to offer blocks of time for sale so they sold the time to anyone that could buy it. It just happened to be religious groups that bought most of the time. By 1979 WRIP TV was selling all but an hour a day to outside sources, nearly all religious. Their secualr shows were ultra low budget. Finally in September of 1981, WRIP began adding several hours a day of barter shows

and a few low priced syndicated shows. They went from an hour a day of secular shows to 3 hours a day of them. By early 1982 they were up to 6 hours a day of entertainment as they acquired movies, more sitcoms, and some drama shows. By the SUmmer of 1982 they ran about 10 hours a day of entertainment and 10 hours a day of bought time which was still nearly all religion. Then the station was sold in january of 1983 and renamed WDSI and went to about 15 hours of entertainment and 6 hours a day of religion. By 1985 they were down to only a couple hours a day of religion and by 1986 all but a couple hours a day of religion was gone. WDSI wound up a typical Fox affiliate which they are today. WPCB 40 Pittsburgh ran hardly any secular shows. If they did so it had to have been before 1983 maybe. Now in Greenville SC, 16 WGGS had secular shows about 5 hours a day with religion occupying 10 hours a day. By 1980 when WGGS was 24 hours they ran religion till 7 AM, secular 7-830 AM; religion 830 AM to 1 PM, Secular 1-7 PM, and religion the rest of the night. From 1982 to 1986 the secular shows gradually fell off the schedule and by 1987 WGGS was religious all but one hour a day. They remained like this until 1990 when they picked up an hour of cartoons a day from 2-4 PM; By 1993, WGGS was secular 3 to 6 PM weekdays with a syndicated Disney cartoon (that was no longer part of Disney Afternoon), some syndicated barter Hanna Barbara cartoons, Wonder Years, Gilligan's Island, and Ozzie & harriet. Then as Channel 40 WFBC seperated from WLOS in 1996 and 62 WASV came on as a UPN/WB independent in 1997, WGGS moved back to a nearly all Christian format by 1999. Their DT-2 runs Secualr shows about 1/3 of the time, mostly public domain stuff. Carolina Christian's sister stations in Columbia SC and Myrtle Beach ran Secualr shows a third of the time. WCCT 57 was sold to a secular owner in 1987 and became a Fox Independent station. WGSE Myrtle Beach remained 1/3 secular and 2/3 Christian until 1990, when they went nearly all secular under Carolina Christian TV. In 1990 they ran Niteline at 5 AM, 700 Club at 6,a nd then Secular shows all day till 10 PM when they ran Niteline and then at 11 PM back to secular shows again. The secular shows by 1991 were all barter including cartoons, some sitcoms, some game shows, court shows, and talk shows. WGSE became a WB affiliated indie in 1995 and in 1998 they were sold to a secular owner and are now a Fox affiliate. It seemed wierd that in 1990 Carolina Christian had a nearly all Christian station in Greenville SC while in Myrtle Beach had a nearly all secular station. These stations were polar opposites of each other. Carolina Christian also launched another station in Columbia SC in 1996 which took both UPN and WB programming, and barter syndicated shows. That station was religious about 5 hours a day. They too have since been sold and I believe they are a CW station today. Is it true that when Pat Robertson sold The Family Channel to Fox, "The 700 Club" had to remain on the schedule, and that that condition also applied when Fox sold the channel to ABC? Is it not also true that a lot of advertisers avoid ABC Family simply because "The 700 Club" is there? Somebody straighten me out on this.

As for WGGS I was gone from Greenville by 1996 and don't remember the changeover to a better mix of secular/religious programs. I remember in the '80s it was virtually all religious; I remember Peggy Denny's talk show and "Beverly Exercise," but that's about it as far as secular programming. WRIP/WDSI, OTOH, seemed to be a station in search of an identity before becoming a Fox affiliate. My Atlanta retros from the '70s are illustrative of exactly what you are saying: a station that morphed from virtually all movies (the same three or four repeated throughout the day) to virtually all religion. Ch. 61 was taken out of the Atlanta edition of TV Guide for a time in the early '80s although it was listed after it joined Fox. WHKY also had some really old stuff when it first went on in 1968; I remember "It's A Great Life" (originally aired on NBC, 1954-56) and "My Hero" (Bob Cummings' first sitcom, from '52) as staples on that station at the time. WGGS is a sister station to WATC 57 in Atlanta. Looking at their schedule (16.2) appears to be somewhat better than 57.2. WGGS is getting more programs from Luken's My Family TV while 57 is not (because 32.6 has them now). http://www.wggs16.com/162schedule.php

Yes the sale of Fox Family Channel to ABC continued to have a manditory running of teh 700 club 3 times a day. WGGS evolved to a nearly all Christian lineup by 1986. Still the secualr shows they ran weekdays were New Zoo Revue, Beverly Exercise, and Peggy Denny. In 1988 they added Dricks Follies weekdays which was a mix of public domain cartoons and film shorts for 30 minutes a day. In 1992 they added Ducktales running 2 hours a day spread out of secualr shows. In 1993, they added Scooby Doo, Yogi and Friends, Flintstones, and Jetsons to the lineup. They also added Wonder years and Ozzie & Harriet in the 5 PM slot. So they were running 3 hours of secular shows plus Beverly Exercise & Peggy Denny earlier in the day. In 1996, they backed away again and was down to 2 hours a day of secular shows when the cartoons went to WFBC 40. By 1998, WGGS was back to a nearly all Christian format. They ran about 7 hours a day of secular shows Saturday morning from 7 AM to about 2 PM. These consisted of wildlife shows, hunting shows, sporting shows, fishing shows, and other outdoor type programming. They moved away from that in the alte 90's.

I have a 1984 Atlanta TV Guide from July and WDSI 61 was back in that edition. So they were likely off TV Guide by 1981 and back in by early in 1984. Ironically, as soon as Atlanta TV Guide dropped WRIP TV, the station gradually began to get better programming. I hear they began a couple hours of cartoons in the afternoon plus a couple old sitcoms from MCA TV late in 1981. They added a couple things from Paramount and

some movies early in 1982 and expanded to about 8 hours a day of secular shows. A schedule you posted from Carolina/Tennessee had WDSI back in the late summer of 1982 and by then they were secular about half the time adding some more movies and drama shows with kid shows down to an hour. My guess is they added more cartoons in the fall of 1982. I know they were sold and became WDSI early in 1983. By the fall of 1983 they had a respectable schedule. In the 1984 edition of TV Guide the station had older cartoons 7-9, religion 9-1 PM, a couple old sitcoms 1-2 PM, a mix of new and old cartoons 2-5 PM, drama shows and some old sitcoms 5-8 PM, old old movie at 8, and a mix of drama shows and first run stuff late night. So the station remained fairly low budget even in 1984 as WDSI. But they had come a long way from the summer of 1981. Today there is no trace of WRIP TV. I doubt anyone working there today was there during their WRIP days. My theory is their longest working employee probably arrived in the late 80's (and they may have crossed paths with the people there in the 70's). So its tough to trace the early days of that station except through old listings. As for WGGS 16 Greenville SC, my guess is a handful of people there today have been there since their early days. I hear that station has had very low turnover.

CTS, the so-called religious network in Southern Ontario and Alberta (CITS Hamilton/London/Ottawa, CKCS Calgary, and CKES Edmonton), has a lot of nonreligious programming. Last time I watched it, they were airing reruns of Happy Days and The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. They also run some public affairs programming, although some of it is of a religious-leaning nature. Isn't FamilyNet the same thing? Last time I checked, they had some religious shows along with regular programs mixed in. Same with Canada's Vision TV, which has been on the air since 1988. It has aired various non-religious programs throughout its history; I remember it had a bunch of British comedies back in the early 2000s.

...KXTX/39 Dallas, under CBN/Pat Robertson ownership, carried dozens of off-network reruns as well as being the production center for the syndicated version of Fritz Von Erich's World Class Championship Wrestling (the version of WCCW that was seen on KTVT/11 Fort Worth was a largely local affair). And I'm fairly sure that, in the mid1980s, WVCY-TV/30 Milwaukee wasn't the only religious-based station to run half hours of CNN Headline News... I'm fairly sure that, in the mid-1980s, WVCY-TV/30 Milwaukee wasn't the only religious-based station to run half hours of CNN Headline News... And you're fairly right-- I don't remember which religious-oriented affilliate carried it, but CNN Headline News ran, seemingly as filler, on the Cable outfit servicing Roswell NM in the '80s.

KXTX 39 Dallas was mostly a general entertainment station under Pat Robertson's CBN. It signed on Channel 33 in early 1973 with religious shows about 6 hours a day and secular low budget shows 2 hours a day. Channel 39 where KXTX is still located in some way shape and form began as a conventional low budget entertainment station owned by DOubleday. They were on about 8 hours a day. Doubleday decided after 5 years of losing money to go dark but they donated the Channel 39 license to CBN along with its programming inventory. CBN then turned off Channel 33, put it up for sale excluding programming, moved the KXTX intellectual unit to Channel 39, combined programming assets and made a strong indepenent station broadcasting about 15 hours a day and eventually by 1974 the full broadcast day. They were not as strong as KTVT but close behind and on most cable systems in Texas along with KTVT. KXTX remained a strong station until the 1980's. When Grant Broadcasting signed on part time indie 21 KTXA, Channel 39 began to weaken slightly. By 1983, KTXA surpassed KXTX by getting strong shows that fell off network affiliates that no longer had room for them. Also as KTVT did not renew some older shows, KTXA picked them up. In 1984, 33 KNBN (which went back on the air as a business news channel by day and Spanish by night in the mid 70's) was sold to metromedia and also became a general interest station with mostly gane shows and drama shows. By 1986 that station too got stronger sitcoms and cartoons and KXTX began to move away from sitcoms and cartoons. By 1990 another player KDFI came around and by then CBN lost interest in running KXTX, which resorted to paid programming, westerns, dramas, and religious shows.