Asheville

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Burlington VT Asheville and Carrboro NC maybe Athens GA, Northampton MA All of those are left of center, very arts-friendly, a lot of creative activity in all of them, they're small enough to be personable, but not huge. Asheville - if you need a day job; the job market there is tight. It's within a 1-4 hour drive from Atlanta, Charlotte, Greenville-Spartanburg, NC Triad, and Knoxville, so it's geographically in a rather nice location. Again Asheville is a do-not-move-here-without-a-job-firmly-locked-down kind of town, but its' arts scene is sizable enough that it's known outside of the area for it. The Black Mountain College was nearby, and though that hasn't been around since the 1950s, it is something of a celebrated (and well-documented) part of the local art history (Merce Cunningham, John Cage, Buckminster Fuller, Willem Dekooning, Walter Gropius, and many other luminaries taught there at some point), alongside the more obvious Appalachian heritage. The Penland School of Crafts and Warren Wilson College (modeled somewhat on the progressive educational model developed at BMC) are nearby. Carrboro - The western edge of the Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill CSA, so even though it's a quirky, walkable town of about 18,000, you're at the periphery of a metro area well over a million people. There's a very strong creative community in the area. Durham is about 10 miles away, is about 225,000, and is - in parts - very heavily populated by creative folk as well. Durham is considerably less expensive than Carrboro or Chapel Hill (C.H. is the most expensive city in NC, with median home prices twice the state average), but parts of Durham (mainly East Durham) have some issues as well. Athens is best known for it's music scene, especially in the 1980s. There's still a very, very big, if somewhat less famous music scene there, and lots of artists. It's a little over a hour east-northeast of Atlanta. I believe it's the largest city east of the Mississippi River NOT on an interstate (85 and 20 are about 25 miles out of town, in two different directions); the countryside around the city is beautiful. The artist Howard Finster lived there for years, and is something of a local hero. Magnificent downtown. It reminds me a bit of a larger (110,000 people in Athens, vs. around 78,000 in Chapel Hill/Carrboro combined) and somewhat less pretentious Chapel Hill. There are some cities out West - Santa Fe, Sedona, Boulder, Flagstaff, some of the northern California towns - that might be worth a look. I don't know them as well, and I don't know what kind of living costs you'd run into; I would expect higher than in the East.
I second Chapel Hill/Carrboro. It's a great place to live.

You'll encounter heat in Nashville also, just not to the degree that you find in Dallas. Nashville is a beautiful city with a nice vibe so you can't go wrong being creative. Sure, LA has traffic, but if you want to be close to the beach then you won't be dealing with freeway

traffic. And speaking of heat, or lack of it. It's just after 12 Noon here in the LA area and my windows are wide open with a cool breeze and sunny skies. Temp is 67 degrees at the beach at Santa Monica...70 here at my place four miles inland and I've yet to turn on the a/c this summer.

The only thing to be cautious of is that LA is expensive. You dont really grasp it until you live there. Just make sure you will be in a position to support yourself. Most artists like to live in the Melrose, Central Hollywood, or on the Westside (Santa Monica, Venice, West Hollywood, Westwood). But if you have the means, do check LA out. Im just getting used to the heat in Dallas myself. I have a high tolerance for it, so its not a big deal. The winters on the other hand....
aleigh and Asheville are very different in almost every significant way. Employment: jobs in general are more plentiful in Raleigh, especially white collar jobs (which doesn't seem applicable to either of you). Asheville is obviously a tourist hotspot, so Hospitality Management jobs should be relatively plentiful (keeping in mind that the economy in general is pretty depressed right now). I'm not sure about Motorcycle Maintenance, but motorcycles are very popular in this area as well, given the proximity to the Blue Ridge Parkway and the abundance of scenic drives (i.e., Tail of the Dragon). Whether that translates to more jobs in motorcycle maintenance, I'm not sure. But Raleigh has a much greater population (500k vs 75K), so that's something to consider. The bottom line though is that jobs are tough all over. The only way to find out is to begin searching for jobs in both places (and ideally at least one of you have something lined up in advance) *before* you move. Culture: Asheville is more laid back, friendly, and hospitable, from my experience. Raleigh is faster paced, more competitive, more "keep up with the Joneses". Asheville has a lot of older, traditional homes, and Raleigh has a lot of cookie cutter subdivisions. Asheville is more individualistic, rebellious, and "do your own thing", while Raleigh is the home of the white picket fence, suburbia, and soccer Moms. Having said all that, these are obviously generalizations, not hard and fast rules. Entertainment: Asheville is obviously home to a lot of outdoor recreation, although Raleigh too has some nice natural areas (Umstead Park, Jordan Lake, Lake Wheeler, etc.). Asheville has much better restaurants, hands down. Raleigh is more chain food-driven. Asheville has a much better music and art scene, though Raleigh, being a city of 500K, has some of that too. Intangibles: Your comment that Asheville "just felt like home" should not be underestimated, imo. Home is where the heart is, not where the job is (although I certainly sympathize with the pragmatic aspect of choosing a place to live). And to a certain extent, "no matter where you go, there you are"

Akhenaton--Interestingly enough, all of the cities you mention are ones that I feel I need to look into more--except for Asheville. I should be the type of person that would love Asheville. It always throws me for a loop that I never feel that way when I am there. I have returned to Asheville numerous times thinking I am missing something--but leave always thinking this isn't for me, It's a great place to people watch and I am into herbs, naturals, etc., but I think Asheville is a little too funky for daily life in my style.

While that sounds nice, Asheville does skew older than other metropolitan areas (average age is 40 here compared to other cities which are in the low 30's). Sure, there's plenty of people to meet here in Asheville, but the middle-class thirty-somethings are not as plentiful here as they are in larger cities. They're literally a minority here. I'm in my thirties and love it here, but I moved here as a married man. My single friends have had varying levels of success meeting people here to date. Some just have the magic touch in terms of meeting significant others, some don't. Cast a WIDE net and you'll probably meet some very cool people, but it definitely takes some effort. Good luck! I think Asheville - the city itself, especially downtown, actually skews younger than the surrounding areas. And in that crowd there are quite a few young professionals who, like me, got lured to the mountains years ago through a summer camp. So we're here, and I think you'll find plenty of good folk to hang out with. It does help if you bring your own job or work in an industry that is strong in Asheville (medical, legal, tourism). I think the creative and tech "industries" are increasing in numbers, judging by the names on office doors downtown. But as far as getting settled and meeting new friends, well, I'd say Asheville is easier than most places.

In my five years here as a young professional, I have yet to hear of anyone who has come here without a job lined up. That's a tremendous risk, and I think the vast majority of people realize that. And yes, there are younger folks here. The city softball league is full of them. The ABASA adult soccer league has an open division with 6 teams, so there are 90 more. Sheer numbers make it obvious there are more young people in the bigger cities in the NC flatlands, but Asheville is certainly not all retirees and college kids.

It may be easy to meet people in Asheville, but most are so dull that you may not want to spend any time speaking with them. Unless you really want to live in 1968, which is my nickname for this boring place.

I am in my mid-30's and have to tell you that I have made many friends and always am doing something different in the 10 months I've been here. I am in the medical profession and have found Asheville to be a great place to call home.

For what it's worth, out of all the guys I've ever known/dated/loved, etc... none charm me more than the mountain fellas who were born/raised here. Ironically, I've never even dated one... but I think I've held all of my other relationships up to that standard and really hoped to find those values in that partner. It's the whole small town classy-ness. Compassion and respect for others, a sense of community and support, involvement, sense of humor, good work ethic but within the scope of enjoying life as a gift and not a chore, knows how to appreciate nature and relaxation, etc... Oops, lost in a southern romance daydream. Someone bring me a lemonade and a paper fan and I'll go sit on the porch in my hoop skirt for a bit and ponder it all and what it means. Ha.

Your concerns are right on the mark. I lived in Asheville for five years in my 30's and it's a very challenging place to be single for many reasons: There are extremely few professionals here and consequently few single professionals. Most of the singles are in their 20's and the rare 30-something singles are too few to form an older singles scene. Actually, forget about whether they are professionals-single 30-somethings of any kind are way underrepresented. You probably will not be dating true locals because their culture is (likely) quite different than yours. On the other hand, most people who move here are moving from cities and don't come here with the idea of lowering their city standards; quite the opposite, they come here to have it all. I've known a few people who have found someone, fallen in love, and now have it all. I've also known a number of folks who have made a questionable trade off: single and living in AVL, vs. married somewhere else. The sad thing is, this choice sneaks up on you. Asheville is certainly not Washington DC or Atlanta or NYC -- or even Raleigh or Charlotte -- so from a sheer numbers perspective, there simply aren't as many single women. Asheville has a population of only about 75,000, and there aren't many heavily populated areas nearby. So that's one strike against you. On the other hand, I have seen some of the most beautiful women I've ever encountered here in

Asheville, so it depends on your "type". The next time you visit, go to Greenlife and people watch in the cafe for about an hour or so; you'll see all types. Personally, you couldn't pay me enough to date the high maintenance, superficial, money grubbing, keep up with the Joneses type women you'll find in the suburbs of Atlanta, for example, despite their outer beauty (although you'll no doubt encounter some of that in Asheville as well, but just not to that extent). And of course I'm generalizing -- not all Atlanta women are like that, of course.

others have pointed out, it really depends on your taste in women. If you like the new age/granola crowd you may find it easy to get a date. However.... just so you know, I used to live in Asheville. Loved it. Loved so many things about it. But finally had to move away for that very reason: I couldn't find anyone to date. Everyone my age was either married, way too hippie for my tastes, or gay. I'm a pretty easy going person, and back then I was in my young 30s and had an easy time dating before I moved there. So finally I decided I had to move back to LA even though I loved Asheville. I couldn't stand the idea of never dating again. One positive thing about Asheville--when I told my boss why I was moving, he actually tried to help me out. Set me up with a few singles that he knew--I've never had a boss do that before. Unfortunately, none of them appealed even remotely, but it was a sweet gesture. Other than this one gripe, Asheville was a wonderful place to live. Now that I'm married I often think of returning there. But I'll be honest. That was a long time ago, so maybe things have changed. But I suspect they haven't--if you're single and over the age of 25, it's going to be hard to get a date. After awhile, that can be a deal breaker.

Asheville is a nice place to visit; nice place to retire, play golf, or have a second home in the mountains. Good place to ride a motorcycle, attend church, or listen to bluegrass music. Live here full-time? Not if you want a career, enjoy culture, the arts, or want some sort of cultural diversity in your community.

O'siyo! I lived in Asheville for a few years and moved out. The only welcoming people are the Tsalagi (y'all call 'em Cherokee). It's full of weird folks, unwelcoming "natives" and white trash thieves. I made friends only with tsalagi and the foreigners. Now I'm in Midlands SC and I love it. Very friendly and welcoming people here, and a better climate. 1+ hour drive to the mountains and 1 hour to the beaches. Also you can try Bluffton and Hilton Head Island (SC), Charleston or Myrtle Beach. Florida sucks, so does Georgia. South Carolina is the best, has best cities and has the brightest future, better than Atlanta. Columbia, SC is a very very nice city. Byes.

Just went to Asheville for the first time not knowing anything about it and I love it!! I cant wait to go back and Im thinking of moving there. It has such a laid back, happy vibe! I see a lot of people complaining about the cost of things, I guess compared to what it used to be its allot, but compared to most of the country it's way cheap!! Houses to rent or buy, taxes, restaurants etc all had great prices, less then where I am now, and this place is cheap compared to everywhere else I have lived. Even the farmers market the food was awesome and I got double what I would around here for the same price! We came home with the car packed with food. Also has the best smoke I have in a long time (I live in a horrible place rite now) All the people I met were very chill, seemed like the type that would help you out even though they don't know you. I love all the coffee shops, every cup of coffee I got was great, again impossible where I live now. We only got to spend 2 days there, but we're going back in 2 weeks to explore more, Im stoked!

Hi, I'm from here. Who are all of you strange people, and why did you decide to come here? I hear a lot of sentiments that you meet lots of great people in Asheville, but all you transitory types are just hanging out with everyone else just like you from the same areas. It takes me about forty five seconds of conversation to peg you as being from NY/NJ, CT/NH/VT, FL (by way of NY/NJ, you usually spend 5+ years there before you DUH! figure out it's too hot), or CO. You've all ready the same books, have all been to the same places, dress the same, have the same recycled ideas. It's like high school played out all over again. None of you have any respect for mountain culture, and if you hear a drawling accent all of a sudden you people shut down because you don't want to meet people like that. The double standards of tourists - you want to experience something new, as long as you don't have to be too open minded about it. I am educated, and speak clearly and intelligently. I am often mistaken for being one of you tourists. Some of you tourists are real people and delight in my uniqueness, or when I speak with a native like a native - direct eye contact, to the point with no wasted words, a subtle level of honesty/respect/manners that tourists can't grasp whilst labelling us simpletons. Some of you do get it, but you are very very rare individuals and always leave Asheville in search of what you couldn't find here. It's the ultimate Catch-22 that the few of you worthy to move here do not stay. What made Asheville so wildly successful is that it was a warm, openminded community... something that is dissappearing in a sea of strangers who have no sense of community, or neighborhood. There are a few young families that have moved into a very small portion of West Asheville that seem to get it... but the whole town used to be like that, twenty years ago. Almost all gone, now. The last two years have seen an influx of southern Californians; predators from the land of competition. Ugh. YOU brought them here. Thanks.

Having lived in other countries, major cities, a few small towns, and Asheville for the last 2 years I can say for a fact that Asheville is no better or worse than any other place when it comes to people. Sure Asheville has more alternative subcultures - but so what. For anyone that believe that one part of this

country is different from another because of the absence or presence of rednecks -- you need to open your eyes. Talk about subjective bullshit. Also there are $400,000 dollar homes here and there are also more reasonably priced ones around $90 - 110 per sq foot in West Asheville and other areas. We here in West Asheville have a very nice community where Rednecks, Hispanics, Russians, and yes even Hippies manage to get along just fine. Anyway -- there are plenty of Vegetarian options here and Hiewa has to be the best. There is great music here mainstream, underground and blue grass. Its got to be one of the few places in the country where the majority of restaurants and a fare share of bars are nonsmoking by choice. Environmentally the air quality could be better, but this is a basin in the mountains and therefore we are at a disadvantage to other locations that just blow there crap downwind. On the other hand the city has recycling service and even my redneck neighbors use it, even if if their bin only has bottles of mountain dew and milk. There are lots of opportunities for hiking and camping. outforgood No Cherokee is not the birth of redneck culture. The trail of tears was one of many injustices done to our aboriginals; however, I'm pretty sure Andrew Jackson was not from Cherokee.I bet there are a few Cherokee's that still live there that would take offense to you. May I suggest reading Cornel West "Race Matters" cause you need to learn the meaning of the word tolerance. For the record I am not stoned, not a hippy, and know my regional history. I was actually looking for articticals about Heiwa and was taken back by your entry. You know they say anger is really sadness and depression. I feel sorry for you.

Everything posted here is true of Asheville. I grew up there and couldn't wait to leave. It can be viewed as a wonderful place full of friendly people. But I found it wasn't that simple. Your hippy children are going to get picked on in county schools, big time. The "rednecks" are a very self-righteous egotistical self-hating type of people. They absolutey despise anyone free enough to enjoy themselves. They religiously train their children to be this way from an early age. Most children receive spankings for the wrong tone of voice etc. Its a very cowardly and self-loathing culture. Criticizing hippies, liberals, gays, yankies and other hateful types of conversation is only way to build report with co-workers in many workplaces. You have to understand this culture. Adults can seem very accepting but that is only because they are afraid of conflict. You will notice the country people avoid eye contact. They have very fearful personalities. They tend to be polite to outsiders, but when its just a bunch of locals they will engage in very hateful conversations about outsiders. Maybe its difficult for me because I grew up there and its easy to talk with the accent and be accepted shown the true nature of the locals. I used to see plenty of outsiders who were oblivious to how the locals view them. I was amazed by a pharmacist I worked with in a drug store before I moved to CA who was in love with the area and thrilled about sending her 5 year old son to a good county school, she enjoyed all the touristy things and felt accepted by everyone. What she didn't see was that everyone actually hated her. My coworkers called her "that ugly yankie bitch" behind her back. The customers all talked about how rude she was and conspired to try and get her fired. Everyone was nice to her face of course. Its like she just floated on a cloud of ignorance and that what lots of outsiders do. She was actually very nice but she offended everyone because she didn't speak in the local folksy dialect and had a professional attitude about her job (i.e. requiring customers to have a valid prescription to obtain prescription drugs.) I moved back to Asheville last summer and lasted 3 weeks before I packed up and returned to CA. Asheville is a hole that will eat

you alive. I left Asheville with $300 bucks in pocket and my vehicle has 250k miles on it. I was getting out it meant walking back west. After living in Cali (even though its so cal) Asheville was a nightmare. I had read great things about it and looked back with rose colored glasses. I got a job with an electrical company and found myself in a $7.50/hr nightmare. It was like high school but even worse. The guys talked about beating up "n*ggers" and jesus is gonna put all the queers in hell. They talked about all the "nasty fuckin" hippies downtown. We were in the work truck when a purple Ford Thunderbird (driven by a hispanic that probably thought his car was very pretty) passed and the guys started saying "what a fuckin queer must be drivin it" and how "we" oughta "round 'em all up and put a bullet in each ones head." This is how they talked all day they never got tired of this sort of thing. We were working on older houses that new comers were fixing up. One homeower was very queer acting but the guys were so nice to his face its easy to see why misconceptions abound about Asheville. Two of the guys took a shit this homeowners bushes while he was out. They also threw large rocks at his neighbors dog just to hear it yelp. Lots of people enjoy moving to Asheville. But I think I know it too well. I was so traumatized by my 3 weeks there last summer I did nothing but smoke cronic all day for several months when I came back home to Cali. I still have nightmares that I'm back in Asheville and wake up so relieved to be here in Cali with my roomate and best friend who supported me after I left for 3 weeks and came crying back. Please take my post seriously. I've experienced Asheville as a native and an outsider. I can't fully describe the oppression I feel there. Coming back to CA was absolutely beautiful, the West begins in New Mexico where land opens up and the sky is huge and all around. The open desert cleared my mind of Asheville and freed my spirit. People here criticize LA, but they need to visit the dirty south and get some perspective! If you wanna move to Asheville you better know what you are getting into. Its not the San Francisco of the east or anything like that. There is one San Francisco and its up the 5 from me. Peace. This place is a complete joke. My husband and I are in our early 20's and moved to Asheville with plans to finish school, buy a home and start a family. We had visited Asheville before and thought it was beautiful and had a nice vibe.... WRONG!!! What we didn't know is that we moved to the land o' bumper stickers where wanna-be hippies and gutter punks roam freely. Seriously... real, true hippies are a thing of the past. Let it go. What in the hell are you trying to prove by not bathing, asking me for my leftovers when I leave a restaurant, or following me into the gas station in your dirty t-shirt and nappy hair asking me to buy you a gallon milk??? A gallon of milk?! The funny thing is... when I politely declined the guy's request he said, "C'mon! It's only $2.00!?" Well, you know what??? If it's only $2.00 then get off of your lazy ass, wash yourself, get a job and buy your own damn milk! I've never seen so many able-bodied people who act like they are "owed" something. One day while visiting an art store downtown I was approached by a guy my age... He struck up a conversation and since I'm a naturally friendly person, I stopped to chat with this complete stranger. We spoke a bit about music and I told him that I had to get going... and before I walked away he asked, "Hey... can I sleep on your couch?" Seriously... WTF?! Can you sleep on my couch?! Do other people really let complete strangers just move on in with them? I was totally shocked that this guy felt that because we'd had a 5 minute conversation we were "friends" enough to shack up together. Please. As for jobs... good luck. I eventually landed a fabulous teaching job at a child care center that I adored and truly miss. The pay wasn't bad either. However, when we first moved to Asheville I called the local Greenlife to see if they were hiring. I was told by the manager that

they were definitley hiring and to come in for an interview a few days later. So I show up for my scheduled interview and wait for 45 minutes by the cash register while someone "goes to find" the manager. Finally the manager approaches me... looks me up and down... and quickly tells me that he has no positions available!!! Maybe it was because I took a shower that morning and actually brushed my hair... maybe it was because I didn't "look the part" or didn't have that certain something about me that would allow me to "fit in" with the Greenlife crowd. I had never experienced discrimination until that occasion... and it sucked. As for education... good luck with that too. I'm an early childhood education major and had about a semester of classes left before receiving my degree (at the school I was attending in Maryland). I spoke with several advisors at AB Tech who assured me that all of my credits would transfer into their program upon my arrival in Asheville. Lies... lies... lies. After registering for fall semester, I was informed that I needed another 22 classes before receiving my degree. The classes that I did take at AB Tech were absolutely sorry. The instructors were horrible and the overall quality of education was pitiful. I hated AB Tech... it was eventually what drove us out of Asheville. Another lovely thing about Asheville is that NO ONE KNOWS HOW TO DRIVE!!! Driving down Merrimon Ave. during any part of the day is literally like trying to dodge missiles with your car. I've lived and drove to work in the DC metro area for over 5 years and never feared for my life the way I did just driving to Ingles on Merrimon Ave. Seriously people... where did you learn to drive?!?! I could not wait to get the hell out of Ass-ville. I do not miss the gutter punks that walked down my street at 3 am playing musical instruments. I do not miss the friendly protests at Starbucks. I do not miss $625/month apartment with no air conditioner, no washer/dryer, no hot water, and windows that you had to beat with a shoe to force them to close. Thank God I made it out of that place... and if anything~ nasty Asheville taught me to truly appreciate what I have.

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